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    Real Strategy Requires Cunning
Jan 9, 2005
8.858
4
1718 - The Age of Equilibrium

Well, I've just started work on this so I thought I'd start a thread for it as I'm going to need quite a bit of help. :eek:o

I chose 1718 because the War of Spanish Succession has ended and thus all territorical 'exchanges' have taken place, and the War of the Quadruple Alliance is just beginning, but the French and British don't declare war until the end of the year. I think it's a good date, as it can go either way and the formation of the war can be easily determined by events. It's also very interesting in the North (Sweden, Russia) and the Turks are having their last gasp at European hegemony.

Also, I felt 1718 was a good year as anything later would be too close to a possible 1770s/80s scenario, which would be the last logical choice for an AGCEEP start.

I'll post updates here, but don't wait up for a playable version for ages. :p

Here's a screenshot showing Europe's borders (first draft ;)):


testzr4.jpg
 
Last edited:

unmerged(40707)

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Mar 1, 2005
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Don't forget you will have a lot of computation to do for provinces according to events after 1648 and same for countries and DPs.

I can help you with some datasheets I use for provinces.
 
Jan 9, 2005
8.858
4
YodaMaster said:
Don't forget you will have a lot of computation to do for provinces according to events after 1648 and same for countries and DPs.

I can help you with some datasheets I use for provinces.
Thank you, Philippe. :)

Any and all help is needed. I've basically copied & pasted all the 1648 stuff and renamed it accordingly so everything works alright. I've made a start on the British Isles/France/Spain/Austria - ie, correcting the territorial setup post-Utrecht.

Do email me anything you think will be helpful, and I will of course need people so post suggestions here. I need to know which events to sleep and which alt. monarchs/leaders to wake, &c.

My main question is, what should the average European land/naval tech level be in 1718?
 
Last edited:
Jan 9, 2005
8.858
4
Updated with first beta screenshot. I shall next turn my attention to the Great Northern War and TUR, who I believe should occupy Morea (which they recovered) and whilst HAB should occupy Banat (as they were ceded everything north of the Danube).

I don't think ENG should have the Balearic Islands as they were only ceded Minorca - opinions on this?

Also, how should we treat Mons? According to several sources (and yes, Wiki :p), the city was captured by the French but returned to the Spanish (and then passed to the Austrians) and remained part of the Austrian Netherlands, though the actual area (Hainaut) wasn't annexed by the French until 1792.

So, are we to say that Artois is French or Austrian?
 
Last edited:

unmerged(84239)

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After 1711, there should be no Transylvania.

The Austrians ousted the ottos from former Hungary, then occupied Transylvania.
There was a revolt led by Rákóczi, but after the initial success, it was defeated in 1711.



So no independent Transylvania in 1718, but should be able to revolt (and releaseable as a vassal).
 
Jan 9, 2005
8.858
4
Many thanks!

I shall give SIE's provinces to HAB.

Anything else?

(I've since updated that screenshot btw... Prussia now exists properly (no more BRA) and I've altered Germany somewhat... Skane to Sweden, &c.)
 
Jan 9, 2005
8.858
4
Update

Here's what I've done so far:

testyf4.jpg


Obviously, I'm doing borders to start with, then I'll get into nation-specific events/monarchs, &c., and finally onto the hard part: the database (tech levels, discoveries, province tax/RR) :eek:o

As for the screenshot itself; I've tidied Prussia up a bit (they now have Kleve, which I believe is historical), Bremen and Vorpommern are occupied by HAN and PRU respectively, TUR occupied Morea and is besieging Dalmatia - both provinces are looted.

Importantly, to the north the Great Northern War is in its final phase and Finland is occupied & looted by RUS; the same goes for Livland, Estland, Kexholm and Ingermanland.

Any ideas as to when St. Petersburg should become RUS's capital? AFAIK, Ingermanland should be occupied by RUS but still owned by SWE, in which case it's hardly ideal to have it as the capital... :confused:

Here's what I have so far for Wars - please, please, please do suggest corrections & additions!


Code:
	war = { #Turkish–Venetian War
		id = { type = 9430 id = 1 }
		date = { year = 1717 month = january day = 1 } 
		enddate = { year = 1718 month = december day = 29 } 
		attackerscore = { TUR = { VEN = 65 } }
		attackers = {
			id = { type = 9430 id = 2 }
			type = war
			expirydate = { year = 0 month = january day = 0 }
			participant = { TUR CRI WAL MOL }
		}
		defenders = {
			id = { type = 9430 id = 3 }
			type = war
			expirydate = { year = 0 month = january day = 0 }
			participant = { VEN PAP KNI POR }
		}
	}
	war = { #Austro-Turkish War
		id = { type = 9430 id = 4 }
		date = { year = 1717 month = january day = 1 } 
		enddate = { year = 1718 month = december day = 29 } 
		defenderscore = { TUR = { HAB = -35 } }
		attackers = {
			id = { type = 9430 id = 5 }
			type = war
			expirydate = { year = 0 month = january day = 0 }
			participant = { TUR CRI WAL MOL }
		}
		defenders = {
			id = { type = 9430 id = 6 }
			type = war
			expirydate = { year = 0 month = january day = 0 }
			participant = { HAB SAV }
		}
	}
	war = { #Great Northern War
		id = { type = 9430 id = 7 }
		date = { year = 1717 month = january day = 1 } 
		enddate = { year = 1718 month = december day = 29 } 
		attackerscore = { RUS = { SWE = 85 } }
		attackers = {
			id = { type = 9430 id = 8 }
			type = war
			expirydate = { year = 0 month = january day = 0 }
			participant = { RUS DAN POL SAC PRU HAN }
		}
		defenders = {
			id = { type = 9430 id = 9 }
			type = war
			expirydate = { year = 0 month = january day = 0 }
			participant = { SWE SHL TUR CRI WAL MOL }
		}
	}
	war = { #War of the Spanish Succession
		id = { type = 9430 id = 13 }
		date = { year = 1717 month = january day = 1 } 
		enddate = { year = 1718 month = december day = 29 } 
		attackerscore = { SPA = { HAB = 5 } }
		attackers = {
			id = { type = 9430 id = 14 }
			type = war
			expirydate = { year = 0 month = january day = 0 }
			participant = { SPA }
		}
		defenders = {
			id = { type = 9430 id = 15 }
			type = war
			expirydate = { year = 0 month = january day = 0 }
			participant = { HAB SAV }
		}
	}

The latter has that name as technically that's what it was. Spain and Austria never made peace and didn't do so until the Treaty of the Hague after the War of the Quadruple Appliance.
 
Last edited:

Mr. G

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mandead said:
Importantly, to the north the Great Northern War is in its final phase and Finland is occupied & looted by RUS; the same goes for Livland, Estland, Kexholm and Ingermanland.

Kurland too should be occupied by foreign powers.

mandead said:
Any ideas as to when St. Petersburg should become RUS's capital? AFAIK, Ingermanland should be occupied by RUS but still owned by SWE, in which case it's hardly ideal to have it as the capital... :confused: !

Historically, St. Petersburg is the Russian capital by this date, but still Swedish territory. Sweden is also preparing a war ageist the Danish Norway, which will take place later this year.
One way to solve the problem could be to give Ingermanland to Russia, and let the rest of the provinces be occupied.
 
Jan 9, 2005
8.858
4
I've kept Courland independent (pending further information/sources) and made it a vassal of both Poland & Russia (ala Prussia in 1648).

Here are the updated wars:


Code:
	war = {
		id = { type = 9430 id = 1 }
		date = { year = 1717 month = january day = 1 } 
		enddate = { year = 1718 month = december day = 29 } 
		attackerscore = { TUR = { VEN = 65 } }
		attackers = {
			id = { type = 9430 id = 2 }
			type = war
			expirydate = { year = 0 month = january day = 0 }
			participant = { TUR CRI WAL MOL }
		}
		defenders = {
			id = { type = 9430 id = 3 }
			type = war
			expirydate = { year = 0 month = january day = 0 }
			participant = { VEN PAP KNI }
		}
	}
	war = {
		id = { type = 9430 id = 4 }
		date = { year = 1717 month = january day = 1 } 
		enddate = { year = 1718 month = december day = 29 } 
		defenderscore = { TUR = { HAB = -20 } }
		attackers = {
			id = { type = 9430 id = 5 }
			type = war
			expirydate = { year = 0 month = january day = 0 }
			participant = { TUR CRI WAL MOL }
		}
		defenders = {
			id = { type = 9430 id = 6 }
			type = war
			expirydate = { year = 0 month = january day = 0 }
			participant = { HAB SAV }
		}
	}
	war = {
		id = { type = 9430 id = 7 }
		date = { year = 1717 month = january day = 1 } 
		enddate = { year = 1718 month = december day = 29 } 
		attackerscore = { RUS = { SWE = 85 } }
		attackers = {
			id = { type = 9430 id = 8 }
			type = war
			expirydate = { year = 0 month = january day = 0 }
			participant = { RUS DAN }
		}
		defenders = {
			id = { type = 9430 id = 9 }
			type = war
			expirydate = { year = 0 month = january day = 0 }
			participant = { SWE SHL }
		}
	}
	war = {
		id = { type = 9430 id = 13 }
		date = { year = 1717 month = january day = 1 } 
		enddate = { year = 1718 month = december day = 29 } 
		attackerscore = { SPA = { HAB = 5 } }
		attackers = {
			id = { type = 9430 id = 14 }
			type = war
			expirydate = { year = 0 month = january day = 0 }
			participant = { SPA }
		}
		defenders = {
			id = { type = 9430 id = 15 }
			type = war
			expirydate = { year = 0 month = january day = 0 }
			participant = { HAB SAV }
		}
	}
	war = {
		id = { type = 9430 id = 16 }
		date = { year = 1717 month = january day = 1 } 
		enddate = { year = 1718 month = december day = 29 } 
		attackerscore = { SAC = { SWE = 5 } }
		attackers = {
			id = { type = 9430 id = 17 }
			type = war
			expirydate = { year = 0 month = january day = 0 }
			participant = { SAC POL KUR }
		}
		defenders = {
			id = { type = 9430 id = 18 }
			type = war
			expirydate = { year = 0 month = january day = 0 }
			participant = { SWE SHL }
		}
	}
	war = {
		id = { type = 9430 id = 19 }
		date = { year = 1717 month = january day = 1 } 
		enddate = { year = 1718 month = december day = 29 } 
		attackerscore = { PRU = { SWE = 10 } }
		attackers = {
			id = { type = 9430 id = 20 }
			type = war
			expirydate = { year = 0 month = january day = 0 }
			participant = { PRU HAN }
		}
		defenders = {
			id = { type = 9430 id = 21 }
			type = war
			expirydate = { year = 0 month = january day = 0 }
			participant = { SWE SHL }
		}
	}

...and alliances:

Code:
	alliance = {
		id = { type = 6000 id = 25 }
		type = militaryalliance
		expirydate = { year = 1820 }
		participant = { SWE SHL }
	}
	alliance = {
		id = { type = 9423 id = 1 }
		type = militaryalliance
		expirydate = { year = 1820 }
		participant = { TUR CRI WAL MOL }
	}
	alliance = {
		id = { type = 9423 id = 3 }
		type = militaryalliance
		expirydate = { year = 1820 }
		participant = { HAB SAV }
	}
	alliance = {
		id = { type = 9423 id = 4 }
		type = militaryalliance
		expirydate = { year = 1820 }
		participant = { FRA ENG HOL }
	}
	alliance = {
		id = { type = 9423 id = 5 }
		type = militaryalliance
		expirydate = { year = 1820 }
		participant = { PRU HAN }
	}
	alliance = {
		id = { type = 9423 id = 6 }
		type = militaryalliance
		expirydate = { year = 1820 }
		participant = { RUS DAN }
	}
	alliance = {
		id = { type = 9423 id = 7 }
		type = militaryalliance
		expirydate = { year = 1820 }
		participant = { SAC POL KUR }
	}
	alliance = {
		id = { type = 9423 id = 9 }
		type = militaryalliance
		expirydate = { year = 1820 }
		participant = { VEN PAP KNI }
	}
 

Milites

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Wll all that I can contribute with right now is that in 1718, Holstein should be under Danish occupation, Bremen-Verden should be held ny either Denmark or Hannover (can't remember right now) and Swedish Pommerania should be under the Prussian heel.
 
Jan 9, 2005
8.858
4
Milites said:
Wll all that I can contribute with right now is that Holstein should be under Danish occupation in 1718 and Swedish Pommerania under Prussian.
Thanks. :)

I didn't know DAN should occupy SHL - I'll do that now.

re Vorpommern, some Swedish friends (biased I realise ;)) on MSN told me that it should be looted but not occupied. AFAIK, Stettin was not occupied - the actual Vorpommern region wasn't either, just bits of it.

Again, I'm not entirely sure hence I ask for multiple sources...


Garbon said:
I see an awful lot of attention being paid to Europe.
Well, I thought it prudent to start with what I know, and then expand into Eurasia and get completely lost. :eek:o :D
 

Milites

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I've never heard of that, but maybe they know more of it than I do ;)

As far as I'm concerned, the Danes with Prussian and Russian support took the island of Rügen and most of western Pomerania. By 1718 Sweden had lost in the North German theatre, so I think it'd be strange to still have them retain the territory.
 
Jan 9, 2005
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Milites said:
I've never heard of that, but maybe they know more of it than I do ;)

As far as I'm concerned, the Danes with Prussian and Russian support took the island of Rügen and most of western Pomerania. By 1718 Sweden had lost in the North German theatre, so I think it'd be strange to still have them retain the territory.

I agree, plus PRU has a core on Vorpommern.

Originally I had Bremen occupied by HAN (which they received in the peace treaty) and Vorpommern by PRU. :)
 

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mandead said:
Well, I thought it prudent to start with what I know, and then expand into Eurasia and get completely lost. :eek:o :D

A few suggestions:

Just try to get the basic setup in place for the Middle East/Central Asia. It's very unlikely that we'll get anything close to history from that point as many crucial events have yet to be drafted.

Also with regards to India/Indonesia, don't go to Euro-centric. Only give Europe provinces if they really owned most of that territory and not that they just controlled the cost or had a trading post.
 
Jan 9, 2005
8.858
4
Garbon said:
A few suggestions:

Just try to get the basic setup in place for the Middle East/Central Asia. It's very unlikely that we'll get anything close to history from that point as many crucial events have yet to be drafted.

Also with regards to India/Indonesia, don't go to Euro-centric. Only give Europe provinces if they really owned most of that territory and not that they just controlled the cost or had a trading post.
Duly noted. :)

My next aim is to try and sort out Poland & Russia (see new post in Russia thread re Ukraine/Cossacks) and then I'll look into the Ottoman-Persian border.

I'll certainly look into India, but I'm generally moving eastwards from Europe, and frankly I'll need any help I can get as I have very little knowledge of the area outside of the Mughal Empire.
 
Jan 9, 2005
8.858
4
Ukraine

Okay, here's what I've done with Ukraine so far:

Code:
	war = {
		id = { type = 9430 id = 7 }
		date = { year = 1717 month = january day = 1 } 
		enddate = { year = 1718 month = december day = 29 } 
		attackerscore = { RUS = { SWE = 85 } }
		attackers = {
			id = { type = 9430 id = 8 }
			type = war
			expirydate = { year = 0 month = january day = 0 }
			participant = { RUS DAN KUR }
		}
		defenders = {
			id = { type = 9430 id = 9 }
			type = war
			expirydate = { year = 0 month = january day = 0 }
			participant = { SWE SHL [COLOR=Yellow]UKR[/COLOR] }
		}
	}
Code:
	alliance = {
		id = { type = 6000 id = 25 }
		type = militaryalliance
		expirydate = { year = 1820 }
		participant = { SWE SHL [COLOR=Yellow]UKR[/COLOR] }
	}

testxm2.jpg


test2ts7.jpg


The problem with the Ukraine (representing the Zaporozhian Cossacks) is that there are several conflicting sources as to what sort of state it was (if a state at all) and whose side it fought on. I've read that it was a Russian vassal until Catherine the Great annexed it, but also that the Cossacks fought the Russians during the Great Northern War.

As such, I've decided to opt for a compromise which I believe works... ;)

UKR begins the scenario will full ownership & control over Ukraina (representing their core lands and the fact that the Cossacks were granted Kiev earlier on), at war with RUS (alongside SWE & SHL), and have captured Poltava and Krementjug from RUS - UKR is laying siege to Donetsk but RUS should be able push UKR back and recapture her two lost provinces.

The idea here of course is that a good UKR player could do enough damage to RUS for her to cede you one or more of your cores. RUS is distracted by the Great Northern War and so it is possible; the usual outcome, however, should be that UKR gets annexed - I'll do an event for RUS to release UKR as a vassal (action_a) if it owns all four of its cores.

Finally, RUS has cores on Donetsk, Poltava and Krementjug (events 271030 & 25005 respectively) but not Ukraina, whilst POL only has a core on Ukraina (event 20135 & replicas); POL does have the option of receiving cores on all four Ukrainian provinces but this is from an action_b and therefore not the normal/historical choice.

From Wikipedia:


"After the Treaty of Pereyaslav in 1654, the territory became a suzerainty under the protection of the Russian Tsar, although for a considerable period of time it enjoyed nearly complete autonomy. After Khmelnytsky's death in 1657, his successor, Ivan Vyhovsky, alarmed by the growing Russian interference in the affairs of the Hetmanate, initiated a turn towards Poland. An attempt was made to return to the three-constituent Commonwealth of nations with the Zaporozhian cossacks joining the Polish Lithuanian Commonwealth by signing the Treaty of Hadiach (1658). The treaty, ratified by the Polish Sejm (parliament), was rejected at the Hermanivka Rada by the Cossack rank and file, which would not accept a union with Catholic Poland that they perceived as an oppressor of Orthodox Christianity. The angered cossacks executed Polkovnyks (colonels) Prokip Vereshchaka and Stepan Sulyma, Vyhovsky's associates at the Polish Sejm and Vyhovsky himself narrowly escaped death.

After Khmelnytsky's death, the Zaporozhians maintained a separate government from Kiev, where the hetmans ruled. The Zaporozhians elected their own leaders, known as Kosh Otaman, for one-year terms. In this period, friction between the cossacks of Kiev and the Zaporozhians escalated.

Cossacks who in the past fought for their independence from Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth, were involved into several uprisings against the Russian Tsar, in fear of losing their privileges and autonomy. In 1709, for example, the Zaporozhian Host led by Kost Hordiienko joined Hetman Ivan Mazepa against Russia. Mazepa was previously a trusted adviser and close friend to the Russian Emperor Peter the Great but allied himself with Charles XII of Sweden against Peter I. After the defeat at the Battle of Poltava Peter ordered a retaliatory destruction of the Sich.

With the death of Mazepa in Bessarabia in 1709, his council elected his former general chancellor, Pylyp Orlyk, as his successor. Orlyk issued the project of the Constitution, where he promised to limit the authority of the Hetman, preserve the privileged position of the Zaporozhians, take measures towards achieving social equality among them, and steps towards the separation of Ukraine from the Russian State — should he manage to obtain power in Ukraine. With the support of Charles XII, Orlyk made an alliance with the Crimean Tatars and Ottomans against Russia, but following the early successes of their 1711 attack on Russia, their campaign was defeated, and Orlyk returned into exile. The Zaporozhians built a new Sich under Ottoman protection, the Oleshky Sich on the lower Dnieper.

Although some of the Zaporozhian cossacks returned to Moscow's protection, their popular leader Kost Hordiienko was resolute in his anti-Russian attitude and no rapprochement was possible until his death in 1733."


I must be clear, it does say that citation is needed for several of these statements, but I trust them for the most part and I myself have no books whatsoever covering this period.
 

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Do a google book search then. There's bound to be at least a sample of something you can see. I'm more than a little concerned about just implicitly trusting wikipedia...especially from an article that needs more sources.

However, for the scope of the 1718 scenario, I think it is okay for now.
 
Jan 9, 2005
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Yes, I must reiterate that this is a first beta (when I even get round to releasing a playable version, that is) - everything will be checked and re-checked as we go on.

Wikipedia is a good starting point for almost anything, I truly believe that. But yes, in-depth historical sourses are going to be required later on.