1617 Scenario and Manchu

[swilhelm73]

The Manchu get event 3700 in 1608.


date = { day = 1 month = january year = 1608 }
offset = 120
deathdate = { day = 30 month = december year = 1608 }

The event is of significant importance, giving them shields all over China. The Manchu do not have these shields, however in the 1617 start. Many of the provinces are not even known to Manchu that they get shields on as part of the event.

So, the 1617 *needs* to have these shields and known provinces added. They should probably have a very large army too.

I can modify the inc file myself to bring it inline with the event if it would help...

 

[unmerged(10128)]

the known provinces for Manchu is way too little anyway. i think they should get the following known provinces (for all scenarios), like what was done in the AGC:
624 625 626 627 628 629 630 631 632 633 634 635 636 637 638 639 640 641 642 643 644 645 646 647 648 649 650 651 652 653 654 655 656 657 658 659 660 661 662 683 684 685 686 687 688 689 886 940 941 942 943 944 945 946 947 948 949 1018 1019 1020 1021 1085 1087 1088 1558 1559 1560 1561 1562 1563 1564 1565 1566 1567 1606 1608

 

[AndrewT]

OK, did all suggestions from both posts, except the army bit. They already have 30k inf and 30k cav.

 

[swilhelm73]

Originally posted by AndrewT
OK, did all suggestions from both posts, except the army bit. They already have 30k inf and 30k cav.

Well, the problem is that they get an amazingly large army via events;

1584 - 30k/30K
1608 - 80K/80K

Now, they really can't support anywhere near the 110k/110k these two events give them.

Perhaps instead the 1608 event and 1617 start should be modified to give tech (+2K each perhaps), a weapons manufactury in Jilin, and a much smaller number of troops (10k/25k)? Generally, when Manchu becomes China they do so mostly through getting province defections and start off *way* behind Ming China in tech.

 

[AndrewT]

Other opinions on the best way to do this?

 

[unmerged(10128)]

in 1617 start, Manchu has land tech 12 but China 10. from my event files, in 1584 manchu actually gets 60K in total (30K twice) but in 1617 manchu actually gets 160K in total (40K FOUR times). that is too much but i think it should only be reduced moderately. if China and Manchu goes to war Manchu should have a realistic chance of defeating China.

what i would suggest is:
- reduce the troop numbers in 1584 to around 50K in total (so 25K twice), with the same proportion of inf/cav.
- reduce the troop numbers in 1617 to around 100K in total (so 25K four times) with the same proportion of inf/cav.
- add some tech for the 1584 event.
- add in the commands breakdynastic, breakvassal and -300 relation with China to both events. (this will more or less make sure Manchu and China will go to war such that the large troop numbers will be quickly killed off).
- add 200 to treasury and 80 to manpower pool of Manchu in 1617 event to give them ability to sustain a war against China.
- an alternative to the third point is just impose a war command on the 1617 event.

 

[swilhelm73]

In the 1617 start, Manchu's tech is 12/5/0/0

China is 10/8/2/2

Its unlikely Manchu will get land 12 by 1617 from either the 1419 or 1492 scenarios - but obviously they will get higher trade and infra. If Manchu is to get to land 12 in 1617, they are going to need a rather large bump from the 1584 and 1608 events. The 1584 event gives +2K land and infra. Perhaps the 1608 in leu of so many troops could give +2k land and trade.

 

[unmerged(10128)]

whats the matter with trade tech? i can understand giving land tech which i think is a good idea.

 

[swilhelm73]

Originally posted by Sun_Zi_36
whats the matter with trade tech? i can understand giving land tech which i think is a good idea.

Well - there are two seperate issues here I suppose.

In the 1617 start Manchu's Land tech is fine. Having trade and infra at 0 is wrong. Heck, Dakota has 1/1 in 1617. I'd suggest upping China to 3/3 and making Manchu 2/2

In the earlier starts, Manchu plain isn't going to get to land 12 in 1617. They are too poor, and in the China tech group, to get there. So if land 12 or so is realistic, or if they are just to get parity with China, they need tech, and lots of it, from events.

Perhaps the 1584 and 1608 events should just give land tech and the The Manchu takeover of China (and its varients) should give a *large* trade and infra bonus.

Generally, if Manchu becomes China, they rule a much technologicially inferior China.

 

[unmerged(10128)]

Originally posted by swilhelm73
In the 1617 start Manchu's Land tech is fine. Having trade and infra at 0 is wrong. Heck, Dakota has 1/1 in 1617. I'd suggest upping China to 3/3 and making Manchu 2/2.

well, i agree with this, at least from a historical standpoint.