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ErikHeinrichs

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Just a question? For those that complain about it..

- do you have different nations you rotate between fighting?
- how quickly does the game do 1 year for you at max speed?

Maybe some people do not want to "rotate" between enemies for whatever reason it might be. Maybe some people just enjoy kicking a nations teeth in every 5 years (well, 15 now) and just take ducats from them? I mean surely it should be up to the player how he wants to war other nations?

Can't see how it matters how fast the game flows on my obsolete i7 3770 CPU. It's like "Question: Steve has 10 apples. He gives 3 oranges to Fred. How many bananas does Steve have left? Answer: square purple beachboll".
 

grandad1982

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Really Johan?

I can fight on multiple fronts and very quickly everyone is locked in to a truce timer of tedious length. As for your second point, maybe thats a bit like saying yeah its boring just skip it.

I don't understand why you guys make such sever changes. What would have been wrong with a 10 year timer and then seeing how it went down? Also as others have said why not make truce length a negotiable part of a peace deal?
 

wolfing

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I ran into a problem with the 15 year Truce. I was playing as Muscovy. I took "Subjugate Novgorod Mission". I attacked them and won the war. I took like 4 provinces in the peace deal so I could vassalize them in the next war. Unfortunately my mission ran out before the truce timer ended. So their went all the claims and the cheaper vassalization due to the Subjugation CB.

I just wish they had scaled up the length of claims and missions as well since they are all balanced around 5 year truces.
I don't know if you know this, but you can cancel the mission (any mission) and you'll get a new set 1 year later, in the case of Muscovy you're almost certain to get that mission again until Novgorod is no more.
 

wolfing

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I'm ok with the 5-15 year truce, but I would love if the DLC after "Art of War" was "Art of Peace" in which you add a bunch of things to do during peace time. As to what exactly, I'll start another thread asking for suggestions.
 

Surgünoglu

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Are any other multiplayer fixes coming down the pike to improve single-player?

And I do rotate enemies, but I have to say that it's darn frustrating to have an enemy DoW on you unexpectedly when you had them planned for the next war. I'm micromanaging more than I used to. This is the best EU that there's ever been--don't get me wrong--but the 15 year truce is a little long. I sure hope multiplayer doesn't have too many more problems...
 

eirecount

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15 years is way too long. If it was balanced for MP, then why the hell should it be longer instead of shorter? MP is slower than SP because of crappy connections and desyncs. MP for us isn't the same as office LAN MP.
 

VolitionNewlove

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I've played CK2 on speed 2 or 3 and was never bored.

Now a EU4 dev asks how fast we can forward EU4 on max speed so we won't get bored.

That is NOT a legit concern.

Perhaps you could try the alternate solution to this problem with EUIV, and start the game in 1821. This also allows the player to spend more time with Crusader Kings II.
 

Zylathas

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I always play on speed 3/4 yet I never have problems with truces. As during truces I often focus on 1.rebuilding 2.building economy 3.trade 4.colonization 5.different enemies 6.diplomacy.

Although I do think 10 year truces would be better for anything under 90% warscore, after 90% warscore truces should be set at 15 years.
 

AurochsAway

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Just a question? For those that complain about it..

- do you have different nations you rotate between fighting?
- how quickly does the game do 1 year for you at max speed?

- Yes, and it is useful to have this, but as the game system doesn't treat secondary participants as different from the warleader, alliances and coalitions can mean that often most of your neighbours are locked into the same truce.
- A year takes me about half a minute to a minute at speed 5 on ironman. Variation likely caused by a combination of both game speed and autosave speed.
 

eirecount

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I find it very provocative that Paradox balance the game for multiplayer when it is a single player game with MP feature.
And said MP balance affects MP even more negatively than SP since speeds are usually lower(like in most MPs you can't go above speed 3 without desyches, but in SP most people play 4 or 5)
 

TheMeInTeam

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Just a question? For those that complain about it..

- do you have different nations you rotate between fighting?
- how quickly does the game do 1 year for you at max speed?

- What? People had different nations they rotated fighting with *five* year truces and still waited them out on occasion, not to mention the possibility of concurrent wars.
- Early in the game a full year at speed 5 will take about 48-50 seconds without pausing. Later on, this slows down considerably.

Take situations like Mongolia, who has just beaten Manchu after independence from Oirat + getting them as a vassal in next war. You declare on Chagatai, and after making some progress Korea declares on you (as overlord of Manchu) and brings in Ming. You win both wars, and now the only possible target for the next 10-15 years (10 in Chagatai's case) is Tibet, who is an ally and trivial to diplovassal later while providing useful trade power now.

When you extend truces really long, it often gets to the point where the only nations you can realistically attack for stretches w/o breaking truce are allies. If you've run afoul of coalitions, then they all get a magic unified truce timer of togetherness, which serves a double-annoying purpose of giving losers to coalitions enough time to actually retake what they lost, and making the player who actually beats the coalition (soundly) wait 15 years on pain of truce break to a very large number of nations. This would have been less vexing if peace deal costs scaled in a PERCEPTIBLE manner for large coalitions, but they don't...in fact all scaling was functionally removed in patch 1.6 (you shave 1% off a province against a 1000+ % war score nation from such scaling in 1.7).

If you want to make it harder to handle fighting multiple nations to expand quickly, then do please make it harder, but bear in mind that waiting is not difficulty, and rate-limiting players via a timer rather than their resources trivializes the importance of said resources to an extent.

And I still disagree that strong nations need babying in MP. In history, impressive empires got dismantled far beyond what war score allows now. From a balance standpoint, having a threat of being eliminated, even late in the game, is a benefit to MP. Otherwise, you get stale situations of giant hugboxes with barely anything changing hands.

As for the truce timer itself, I suggest the following:

- Non linear scaling (even if 100% is 15 years, 50% is not 10).
- Much faster ends to wars over a set war goal (or something similar for superiority wars).

This gives the player a legit trade between limited or total war (the current design is almost entirely skewed to total war, as the war-time investment for 1 province or 100% is a much smaller difference than from the day war is declared and until the AI is willing to peace at all). Make people think a little here, and strain their resources if they want fast expansion rather than sitting on an arbitrary timer.

It would also be nice to fix the "white peace = 15 year truce" bug that happens when white peace doesn't override the previous peace deal (very noticeable with separate peace).
 

Lessing

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CK2 has a lot more boring clicking and micro managing to be done though,

CK2 has (or had) tons more possibilities to further your realm. You could busy yourself with finding claimants and invite them to your court, or invite people with great genetic attributes for breeding. You could also hunt for crowns soon to be vacant, female heirs, and 3rd sons. All possibilties to position your nation a bit better than when not doing it.

Perhaps you could try the alternate solution to this problem with EUIV, and start the game in 1821. This also allows the player to spend more time with Crusader Kings II.

What a ringer!

If you can't or don't want to discuss, I'd prefer you stopped posting.
 

justin6477

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CK2 has (or had) tons more possibilities to further your realm. You could busy yourself with finding claimants and invite them to your court, or invite people with great genetic attributes for breeding. You could also hunt for crowns soon to be vacant, female heirs, and 3rd sons. All possibilties to position your nation a bit better than when not doing it.

Even the build system in CK2 goes a long way to making you feel like you're doing something during peace.
 

itsuart

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- do you have different nations you rotate between fighting?
It depends. Also, what if I don't want to paint the map just for the sake of it? Say I'm Crimea, that decided to eradicate all Christians and preserve East religions? In late game there is usually not much countries left, even fewer with shared border.
- how quickly does the game do 1 year for you at max speed?
For this question I share reaction with people above.

Also I wonder if Japan now have harder time to unite itself.