1419: New Order II

[Fredrik82]

One more thing, England will leave the alliance with Burgundy after the war.
Burgundy will however still have English protection if it will be ganged like that again. And i strongly recomend that others will follow English example.

 

[unmerged(19673)]

One more thing, England will leave the alliance with Burgundy after the war.
Burgundy will however still have English protection if it will be ganged like that again. And i strongly recomend that others will follow English example.

I have every intention of leaving scandinavian alliance after the war, however i will be returning to the iberian one

 

[unmerged(10927)]

hemm this session i was OE
1st of all : NO INSTRUCTIONS

History:
white peace in war vs. RUS and AUS
rebels in south Egypt land(core) joined to Nubia
so i started a war against them and their allies in arabia
also increased relationships with vassals in Albania and Tunis
Tunis added to alliance
at the end of war i realised IRAQ(1 land) and ARABIA(1 land) because overlimited BB level
but stab was -3 and 3 civil wars started one by one
rebels realised only one land SIVAS
i was not bad prepared for civil wars(all armies was divided and was in all provinces) so not too much loses how it must be
AND now OE needs only one year to complete operation "REBELS MUST DIE"

so at this session OE was not only not really ruined by hordes of rebels(like other players predict) but exchanged few provinces(income increased), increased stab back to 0, get a new ally +relationship with another vassal, yup we lost some money and people but our income is great so in 2 max 3 years power of OE can be much more than it is and was!

ehh also OE built trading post near nubia(was nubia now OE)
and finaly infiltration level was not increased

anyway sorry for civil wars (now i know how this new beta patches works :wacko: )

 

[Owen]

A condensed history of the OE 1622 - 1635:

April 1622 Status Quo peace with Russia and Austria, as previously agreed.
Nov 16 1624: DoW Nubia (with Aden) (with CB, from allowing province of Nile to defect in previous months, despite presence of over 20k in adjacent province to retake it). (+1BB)
Sep 10 1627: Peace with Nubia giving 100d, Nile (core province), Bisharin, Nubia and Batn al Hajar to OE. (Offensive war) (+6BB)
May 18 1629: DoW Hedjaz (no CB) (+4BB)
Aug 16 1629: Force annex Hedjaz (same religion) (+6BB)
PJL points out OE now over BB limit. BGW says "oops". Other players explain that this will produce civil wars.
Sep 18 1630: Peace with Aden, giving Arabia, Medina, Hadramaut and Aden to OE. (+8BB)
Oct 5 1630: Released 1-province Hedjaz, thus meaning that all the new provinces from Aden supply no manpower and are subject to the overseas income penalty. (-1BB)
Nov 5 1630: Released 1-province Iraq, one of the richest provinces and highest manpower provinces in the Empire. (-1BB)
Dec 1 1631: Civil war in OE
Oct 1 1632: Civil war in OE
Oct 1 1633: Civil war in OE
Aug 1 1635: Dulkadir declares independence from OE (-1BB)

Net +22 BB

Currently the OE has 49.1/44 Badboy, after starting the session at 29.6. Including the gradual BB reduction, it has still gone up almost 20 BB, and in return the OE has gained seven mainly poor provinces, but Iraq and Dulkadir are now independent and 19 provinces are currently rebel-held. It seems likely more of them will declare independence before I can recapture them, and further civil wars are likely before that much BB can be removed.

Trade 4 was achieved during the session though.


What was the Sultan's intention? The OE was supposed to gain trade 4, then gain stability, all the while being ready to attack to force Austria to sign a white peace with Burgundy if they attacked them. Meanwhile, a slow stream of diplomats would attempt to diplovassalise some of Persia, Nubia, Aden, Mughals and Gujurat. With badboy at historically low levels at the start of the session, this would have allowed expansion into central Asia, India and East Africa. Such expansion will now be impossible for about another century if BB is to remain below the BB limit.

Link to Kurtbrian's Badboy FAQ. I plead with everyone to read this document. There are several important things learn, but the most important are:

1. Attacking without a CB hurts a lot. (+4 BB)
2. Forceannexing a nation of the same religion hurts a huge amount (+6BB)

Either are acceptable when you are very small and needing rapid growth, but only then.

Ho hum.

 

[Owen]

The Ottoman Empire: Where Now?

Under current circumstances, the Ottoman Empire will be forced into a temporary decentralisation of power, and she will turn inward, concentrating on retaining technological parity with the west. Any wars fought will be on the defensive and will aim for status quo peace as soon as is practical.


Or, you could reduce my badboy to reasonable levels.

 

[Owen]

A quick addition:

Three provinces are about to defect immediately, and Armenia will declare independence in a couple of months. The other 15 provinces will probably survive long enough to be recaptured, with the exception of a few which will just have to stay in rebel hands until I can build a navy to ferry troops to them.

 

[unmerged(19673)]

What was the Sultan's intention? The OE was supposed to gain trade 4, then gain stability, all the while being ready to attack to force Austria to sign a white peace with Burgundy if they attacked them. Meanwhile, a slow stream of diplomats would attempt to diplovassalise some of Persia, Nubia, Aden, Mughals and Gujurat. With badboy at historically low levels at the start of the session, this would have allowed expansion into central Asia, India and East Africa. Such expansion will now be impossible for about another century if BB is to remain below the BB limit.

.

Geez, and i actually felt bad that you got 2 civil wars

 

[Owen]

Geez, and i actually felt bad that you got 2 civil wars

Er, three civil wars, and had any hopes of expansion completely removed.

And, no, I had no intention of fighting France, I just wanted to ensure Austria didn't gain any land herself.

 

[devil]

omg owen, now i feel a bit bad I didn't sub you.

It was all hive's fault.

 

[unmerged(19673)]

Er, three civil wars, and had any hopes of expansion completely removed.

And, no, I had no intention of fighting France, I just wanted to ensure Austria didn't gain any land herself.

well, considering austria and france are both at war with burgundy, it wouldnt have been good for france if austria was taken out of the equation

 

[Tonioz]

well, OE was subbed by rookie player, who leaded it to civil wars, so Austria felt itself free very much.

Hmmmm: i`m sorry i`ve made one global mistake - i forgot to claim Defender of Faith when was dowed. I believe then enemies could assault at maximum half provinces that controlled by them now.
The war was progressed by following way: Status-quo at Inca-Chimu lands with no actions at all, Sweden attacked at Northern America, then Caribbeans - i couldn`t pay any attention to this region, France and Austria pressing by whole their manpower at continent. England landed forces to Burgundy and helped us several times.

I believe if we have land tech 8 instead of 18, it would be much easier to defend Burgundy lands, but as you may guess i saw 150-200K of French troops at west and 100-200K of Austrian at east. So surely they finally could make such assaults from different sides. France needed to put more than 110K in province twice to assault medium fortress. Well, in fact i`d like to continue this war, because it hurts Burgundy economic not much, to see if it can be captured at all. After enemies could assault border provinces, it is hard to go to deep Burgundy. And as i told - defender of Faith... Austria is capable in moral only because of Counter-Reformation and defender of Faith, that gives them +1.0 morale.

About peaceful years - income was increased to almost 400, and i keep 4 monopolies in own cots, and colonized far east. Judjes built everywhere. No deflation events.

As to peace demands of gangbangers They all declared "to punish England", they want only small things from Burgundy, but then i read list of demands: let`s hear our little demanders

Sweden wants only Cot with several provinces :rofl:
Austria wants only Mainz and two cities at north of south america, one of them - gold (oh, yes, "poor provinces" )
France wants only 3 provinces controlled by Sweden now.

I doubt 99% warscore enough to stabhit that and give provinces for Denmark as well

Well, i`d wish to play once more for designing new war 5 years later, which would be prepared. Pity OE couldn`t act this session.

Hmmm, as to current troops - we have 120-130K in europe, and almost 50K at Cuzko. France 50K armies was annihilated several times by our mightly cavalry, so he escapes immedialty without fight usually now. I would really would like to see if anti-Burgundy alliance can win this war without stabhit.

At the end lousy Hive :rofl: did everything to stop session to talk about peace terms

 

[Tonioz]

and btw, talking about propaganda Sweden is more hyperteching then Burgundy Though it was me who boosted their income from 49 to 150 two or three sessions ago :rofl:

 

[Tonioz]

combat losses for session:
Burgundy 110 608 inf + 136 150 cav
France 249 536 inf + 19 967 cav
Austria 124 941 + 76 265

attrition losses for session:
Burgundy 64 605 inf and 47 208 cav
France 262 116 inf and 35 969 cav
Austria 189 514 inf and 33 416 cav

total losses for session:
Burgundy 175 213 inf and 183 358 cav = 358 571
France 511 652 inf and 55 936 cav = 567 588
Austria 314 455 inf and 109 681 cav = 424 136

Burgundy vs France-Austria:
175 213 inf vs 826 107 inf
183 358 cav vs 165 617 cav
total: 358 571 vs 991 724

WE:
Burgundy: 9.355
France: 8.700
Austria: 6.635

Morale:
Burgundy: 4.887
France: 5.400
Austria: 5.600

Current army:
Burgundy 95 294 inf and 107 714 cav = 203 008
France 185 312 inf and 16 654 cav = 201 966
Austria 224 082 inf and 52 761 cav = 276 843

Losses/WE*2=Average manpower ?
Burgundy: 76,66
France: 130,48
Austria: 127,85

 

[Tonioz]

Hmmm, i suppose this stats shows objective reason of lossing, i did my best, except claiming Defender of Faith title.
I suppose next moves of your sliders should be go towards full land, despite on colonization and TE

 

[Rezag]

As to peace demands of gangbangers They all declared "to punish England", they want only small things from Burgundy, but then i read list of demands: let`s hear our little demanders

Sweden wants only Cot with several provinces :rofl:

Now Sweden is wanting Alaskas COT and is willing to give SA COT away for that and those level 1 trade post very well Ill burn them so they wont be issue.

 

[Rezag]

and btw, talking about propaganda Sweden is more hyperteching then Burgundy Though it was me who boosted their income from 49 to 150 two or three sessions ago :rofl:

You evil hypertecher .

Sadly my instructions for Sweden was lost as FAL was unable to sub me .

 

[Tonioz]

For Hmmm information: Aragon embargoed us since war started without reason, later i read statement with asking money or whatever for lifting embargo.

Aragon can hide in the back of France, but i suppose he damages himself more than Burgundy.

Besides on your place i`d discover land 21 and build level 4 fortresses everywhere, you know it is tough for attackers (IE2) )

 

[Rezag]

About peaceful years - income was increased to almost 400, and i keep 4 monopolies in own cots, and colonized far east. Judjes built everywhere. No deflation events.

Despite this war East is Burgundys&Englands private playground as no other nation has access there so losing few colonies in america shouldnt be big problem as they can be replace with more rich east colonies that are completely safe. But then again this doesn seem to matter at all as we all know how useless and un productive east is .

So if England and Burgundy wants Sweden is more than happy to change its demand over Alaska COT to maps and just trade post ,small colony in east or to empty space they promise to leave open for swedish colonization to give some options .

 

[Hive]

First of all, I don't appreciate that people hint I made sure a newbie would play in OE so that I got my back free.

Owen had 1 week to find himself a sub, but couldn't. Fair enough. I then had less than 1 day to find a sub - and I also needed subs for Portugal (for which I thought Flatus would play) and Russia.

I asked vets like Devil, Prinz Eugen, Drake and Robertus - but none of them could/would play.

BGW then offered to play, and Fred found Seen and Iron. I decided to put the most experienced player of those in Portugal, since they were AI last session. 2 sessions as AI in a row would be bad.

I didn't know anything about neither BGW nor Seen, so I said that they could decide amongst themselves who was to play what.

BGW is new, and have many things to learn yet. That's how it is when you start MPing, I remember it. Besides, Owen could just have left some instructions...

Now you keep saying "if Owen was here, Austria would be soooo dead" - and that may be. But then I might as well say "if Slargos was here, OE would have a much harder time invading Austria"...

And as to me not wanting to go on with the war: well that's rubbish. 23:00 CET is the official end time. I asked everyone whether or not they could play on, and Forzaa could not. Furthermore, Seen dissapeared. So really, we had to stop.

I understand that England and Burgundy were looking forward to sending their huge armies to Luxemburg; but I was aware of that troopmovement. You wouldn't be able to make a surprise attack there anyway, I am prepared.

And while I'm writing a huge post, I might as well add that my goals for this war wasn't to rape Burgundy. I would much rather take something from England, but that's not possible. In fact, if those Iberian buggers had just joined - then it's possible that I wouldn't take anything at all. What I wanted from this war was not really land for myself, I just wanted England and Burgundy crippled. I was hoping that the naval powers could take colonies and overseas CoTs from them - but without the Iberians, England seems to be too powerful on the seas for that...

 

[ForzaA]

For Hmmm information: Aragon embargoed us since war started without reason, later i read statement with asking money or whatever for lifting embargo.

..which reminds us, Aragon is willing to lift the embargo to Burgundy and England, provided that a mutually satisfactory arrangement concerning trade policies can be reached.

but I wonder... how does it hurt me more than it does you Tonio?