1419 England, not sure I understood the FAQ

[unmerged(9136)]

OK, so I did read the FAQ first, I'm still not sure if I got it right.

The FAQ says I shouldn't accept peace with the Dauphin until he recognizes me as king. So I beat up "France", got Troyes, Henry IV beat up the Dauphin, I got an "English Final Victory" event, I got a bunch of provinces from the Dauphin. Some time later, Henry IV got crowned in Paris.

(Ok, so it was on very easy.)

Thing is, after a couple more years, nothing more happens. I have occupied all the Dauphin's remaining provinces, I keep rejecting the peace offers, but there doesn't seem to be an event where the Dauphin actually gives up and acknowledges me as king.

So the question is: is that "Final Victory" event it, or should I really stay at war with the Dauphin some more?

 

[crash63]

If you have the "collapse of the kingdom of Bourges" in your first war you must wait 1461, the death of the dauphin.

 

[unmerged(49888)]

Has Dauphine given up all its provinces except Dauphine?

 

[unmerged(9136)]

Well, actually, he had given up all but 3 provinces in the SE. (And I could take 2 of those 3 in a peace settlement, _if_ I accept a peace. But the FAQ says I shouldn't accept a peace with the Dauphin, which is why I ask.) Does he give up more later?

I can't seem to find an event where that happens. But then again, I'm a newbie to those events and there are _lot_ of them. So it's very likely that I've missed something.

And do I actually have to stay at war until 1461? Because the FAQ seems to hint that way.

And, yes, as far as I understand the scripts, "English Final Victory" for England is the same as -- or, strictly speaking, a consequence of -- "Collapse Of The Kingdom Of Bourges" for the Dauphin.

 

[unmerged(9136)]

Well, I suppose the question is also along the lines of: what happens if the Dauphin doesn't exist any more in '61? At the point where he's been reduced to a province it's fairly easy to mass the remaining troops at his border, wait for the peace treaty to expire, then annex.

Is there some event to become France, that depends on some Dauphine event? Or having been crowned in Paris is the end of it anyway?

 

[Al Merko]

I was playing HYW just this afternoon and here is how things happened:
1. War with France: control all provinces 100% victory and France limited on single province 1421
2. Troyes 1421
3. Inheritance of France, Henry king of France 1422
4. War with Dauphne: control all provinces, then event Final Victory: Dauphne limited to 3 provinces but still in war against me 1422
5. Maine (Provance) event 1423
6. Peace treaty with Dauphne (100%), limited to single province 1424
7. Gave away two provinces to Burgundy 1425
8. Crusade 1427
9. Dauphne attacks me but its occupied 1429
10. Events conected with Beaufort, revolts all over France 1431/34
11. Henry IV apointed 1435
12. York calms things down 1436

 

[crash63]

And do I actually have to stay at war until 1461? Because the FAQ seems to hint that way.

No you must be at war with Dauphiné until the collapse of kingdom of Bourges. After you can make a peace and wait 1461, the death of the dauphin.

 

[unmerged(9136)]

Thanks.

 

[Ulfang]

I'm playing the same campaign as england. When does Bourges collapse? I'm in 1423 now. France (the vassal state) is mine, I've passed the inheritance event and Henry IV is on the throne. Just got the Gloucester inheritance event. I went with the event that gives me control of Holland (although Luxemburg is in control for some reason. Artois should be English too but is in the control of Brabant. I'm at war with either of these nations. When I select the political map they are English (have the coat of arms on them) but in reality they are controlled by Lux and Brabant.

At the moment Dauphine is on its last legs but it's allies of Savoy, Naples and Provence are causing a few problems. Nothing I can't contain though.

Do I need to take control of all Dauphine provinces then make peace taking control of his provinces or will it be a final event at some point, dependant on certain conditions?

Maybe I'll go check the FAQ again ....

Answered my own question by checking the FAQ. I see I need to take control of all of Dauphine's provinces. I assume this will mean any vassals of Dauphine would become my vassals?

Very good mod btw. Very immersive regarding the inheritance of England. Will also give Dauphine a go I think and try to re-unite France.

 

[unmerged(9136)]

You need to control all the Dauphin's provinces, yes. This doesn't mean annexing the Dauphin, though. If he doesn't exist any more, his events don't trigger. So counter-intuitively you _can't_ get a final victory by wiping out the Dauphin.

Also, there are some minimum dates at which these events can fire. Looking into the event files, he kingdom of Bourge can't possibly collapse before 1425. So, well, you'll have to stay at war with the Dauphin for a little more.

Also, technically, the Final Victory event and the Collapse Of The Kingdom Of Bourges triggering it, do nothing more than give you some provinces and trigger more events later. The Dauphin does not become your vassal, or even automatically get a peace with you. (Though I suppose you could force vassalage in the peace settlement, if you want to.) And his vassals don't become your vassals.

The way I read it, what happens there is that the Dauphin has been too badly beaten to be taken seriously as a candidate for the crown any more. All the the other nobles (i.e., all provinces except for his own lands) unilaterally give up and acknowledge the English king, paving the way for your official coronation in Paris later.

I suppose it would make sense for his vassals to do the same (technically the provinces that switched sides were vassals too), but they don't. Or at least they didn't for me.

As for playing the Dauphin, hmm, dunno, IMHO he has it easy there, since the whole event sequence is scripted so, all else being equal, the Dauphin wins. I.e., AI against AI, the Dauphin will unite France again. A human can't have it much harder there.

If you want a more interesting twist, try becoming France as Burgundy. It's a bit more challenging in that you have to pretty much make sure neither wins until 1461. Heck, even _you_ have to not win much against either until 1461. Because if you beat up the Dauphin, the English win the crown by virtue of what you signed at Troyes. If you beat up the English too bad, they acknowledge the Dauphin and he gets the crown. The events for both sides are pretty much based on what provinces they lost, not on which provinces they won, so you have to make sure neither loses their key provinces.

The reward is that in the meantime you could have gotten the Dutch culture, most of the Netherlands, and become a bigger and more unified France earlier.

 

[crash63]

Trigger to have "The Collapse of the Kingdom of Bourges" :


NOT = {
control = { province = 408 data = -1 }
control = { province = 410 data = -1 }
control = { province = 417 data = -1 }
control = { province = 418 data = -1 }
control = { province = 419 data = -1 }
control = { province = 422 data = -1 }
control = { province = 423 data = -1 }

 

[unmerged(9136)]

Hmm... _is_ there some special event in 1461 for England? I've let the Dauphin live in Dauphiné until 1462 now, and, honestly, nothing happens.

And looking again through the events, I can see how 1461 would be interesting for Burgundy, but nothing special seems to be in there concerning England.