1066 cultures

[Solmyr]

Yeah, something will need to be done with cultures in Brittany (its rulers, for some reason, are Norman). There is actually a "Celtic" culture tag but unfortunately it doesn't have a name list so we cannot assign it to characters, and assigning it to provinces carries the danger of unnamed children if they "go native" (like with Ugric Baltic).

 

[Earl Uhtred]

I wouldn't mind having a few characters with such traits, but by 1066, most of the ruling elite weren't norse.

No, but there were certain cultural peculiarities that survived some time after the Norman Conquest both in the Danelaw and the Hiberno-Norse towns. Plenty of Ozurrs, Orms, Ketils, Osgods and Hakons, at least among the northern gentry.

 

[Solmyr]

There is the currently unused Abghazian culture tag. In 1.02 it was used in the Berber areas, but it's not used in 1.03. Possibilities:

- Berbers (as in 1.02)
- Nubians (for the kingdom of)

Keep in mind that the tag has Arab-style names in the names file, so there's only a limited area where it can be used without problems.

 

[unmerged(17303)]

Abghazian wouldn't work for Nubia, but for the Berbers, it would be fine. the Abghazian names are basically the same as the Arabic ones, but IIRC the Nubians had Christian names.

 

[Solmyr]

Dutch culture should be expanded to the flemish provinces though: Brabant, Brugge, Gent, Ypres and Guines should have dutch culture in the 1066 scenario.

What about Hainaut, Loon, Liege, Breda, and Sticht?

 

[unmerged(27913)]

Also I think It should be Flemish instead of Dutch.

Btw. is Occitan the same as Latin tag in 1.03b?

 

[Solmyr]

Yes, Occitan uses the Latin tag. Actually the southern French provinces as well as Provence need to be changed to it, they are still Frankish even though the rulers are Occitan.

Another question: Krain and Istria are currently Italian. Should they be something else? German? Southslavic?

 

[unmerged(27913)]

Yes, Occitan uses the Latin tag. Actually the southern French provinces as well as Provence need to be changed to it, they are still Frankish even though the rulers are Occitan.

Ah yes...I though so.

Another question: Krain and Istria are currently Italian. Should they be something else? German? Southslavic?

Yes. In fact Carinthia, Krain and Istria should be all 'south slavic'.
The ancestors of modern day Slovenians(Karantanians/Carinthians) lived in Carinthia and Krain as early as 6th century and founded the first stable south slavic state.

 

[Brownbeard]

Ah yes...I though so.



Yes. In fact Carinthia, Krain and Istria should be all 'south slavic'.
The ancestors of modern day Slovenians(Karantanians/Carinthians) lived in Carinthia and Krain as early as 6th century and founded the first stable south slavic state.

maybe even steiermark as well, since germanization was a process that lasted for centuries. even today half of steiermark is southslavic.

 

[unmerged(27913)]

I don't know about Styria. Maybe some border parts, but Styria as a whole was always germanic as I know.

 

[unmerged(27913)]

There is the currently unused Abghazian culture tag. In 1.02 it was used in the Berber areas, but it's not used in 1.03. Possibilities

What are berber areas?! Mauretania, Tunis, North Africa? Muslim Spain?

 

[Earl Uhtred]

What are berber areas?! Mauretania, Tunis, North Africa? Muslim Spain?

Most of North Africa away from the coast, the Canaries and bits of Spain.

 

[unmerged(27913)]

Well I renamed the Abghazian culture to Berber and added it in whole North Africa from Canaries to Sultanate of Fatmids and in the whole Muslim Spain and Sicily.

I know it's not perfect, but it's much better than to have it Arab.

 

[Solmyr]

Berber areas would be Morocco, Algeria, and Tunisia. Cyrenaica and Libya are arguably more Arab at this point, and Muslim Spain is certainly not majorly Berber, even after the Almoravids and Almohads come over.

 

[unmerged(27913)]

I don't agree. They certainly weren't more Arab. Especially Spain. They were Moors. Since I can't spare another tag it's far more simple to name them Berbers since they were closer to them than to Arabs.

 

[Solmyr]

I'm not sure they were closer to Berbers. The Moors were cultural heirs of the Umayyad dynasty, which was as Arab as anything. When they called the Almoravid Berbers to rule them, there was an enormous culture clash...

 

[unmerged(27913)]

They were definately Arab influenced as all other people were in North Africa and Middle East. That doesn't makes them Arabs though. Besides even today we don't have a prescise definition of a 'Moor'.

 

[Earl Uhtred]

How about this? Light green is Berber, dark green is mostly Arab.

 

[Solmyr]

Looks mostly fine, though I think the Zirids in Tunisia were Berbers rather than Arabs. And I still think there weren't that many Berbers in Andalusia yet in 1066. They came later with the Almoravids.

 

[Earl Uhtred]

Looks mostly fine, though I think the Zirids in Tunisia were Berbers rather than Arabs.

I was wondering about that. I think - not sure - they were Arabs ruling over a largely Berber population.

And I still think there weren't that many Berbers in Andalusia yet in 1066. They came later with the Almoravids.

The map I used for Spain represented 1030, though I appreciate a line on a map is not the best way to represent the Arab-Berber relationship in Iberia or elsewhere.