• We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.

Solmyr

Field Marshal
114 Badges
Mar 12, 2001
3.836
0
enothril.awardspace.com
  • Arsenal of Democracy
  • Age of Wonders II
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
  • Victoria 3 Sign Up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: By Blood Alone
  • Cities in Motion
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Darkest Hour
  • Deus Vult
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Hearts of Iron III Collection
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Magicka
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Semper Fi
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
Yeah, something will need to be done with cultures in Brittany (its rulers, for some reason, are Norman). There is actually a "Celtic" culture tag but unfortunately it doesn't have a name list so we cannot assign it to characters, and assigning it to provinces carries the danger of unnamed children if they "go native" (like with Ugric Baltic).
 

Earl Uhtred

Unfurl The Bratwurst
67 Badges
Feb 16, 2002
6.435
444
nope.com
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • 500k Club
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Cities: Skylines Deluxe Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Hearts of Iron II: Beta
  • Pride of Nations
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Victoria 2
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Achtung Panzer
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Darkest Hour
  • Deus Vult
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Divine Wind
  • Cities in Motion 2
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria: Revolutions
Friedrich II said:
I wouldn't mind having a few characters with such traits, but by 1066, most of the ruling elite weren't norse.

No, but there were certain cultural peculiarities that survived some time after the Norman Conquest both in the Danelaw and the Hiberno-Norse towns. Plenty of Ozurrs, Orms, Ketils, Osgods and Hakons, at least among the northern gentry.
 

Solmyr

Field Marshal
114 Badges
Mar 12, 2001
3.836
0
enothril.awardspace.com
  • Arsenal of Democracy
  • Age of Wonders II
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
  • Victoria 3 Sign Up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: By Blood Alone
  • Cities in Motion
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Darkest Hour
  • Deus Vult
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Hearts of Iron III Collection
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Magicka
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Semper Fi
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
There is the currently unused Abghazian culture tag. In 1.02 it was used in the Berber areas, but it's not used in 1.03. Possibilities:

- Berbers (as in 1.02)
- Nubians (for the kingdom of)

Keep in mind that the tag has Arab-style names in the names file, so there's only a limited area where it can be used without problems.
 
May 28, 2003
677
0
Abghazian wouldn't work for Nubia, but for the Berbers, it would be fine. the Abghazian names are basically the same as the Arabic ones, but IIRC the Nubians had Christian names.
 

Solmyr

Field Marshal
114 Badges
Mar 12, 2001
3.836
0
enothril.awardspace.com
  • Arsenal of Democracy
  • Age of Wonders II
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
  • Victoria 3 Sign Up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: By Blood Alone
  • Cities in Motion
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Darkest Hour
  • Deus Vult
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Hearts of Iron III Collection
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Magicka
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Semper Fi
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
Yes, Occitan uses the Latin tag. Actually the southern French provinces as well as Provence need to be changed to it, they are still Frankish even though the rulers are Occitan.

Another question: Krain and Istria are currently Italian. Should they be something else? German? Southslavic?
 

unmerged(27913)

Pessimus Dux Sclavorum
Apr 16, 2004
2.165
0
Solmyr said:
Yes, Occitan uses the Latin tag. Actually the southern French provinces as well as Provence need to be changed to it, they are still Frankish even though the rulers are Occitan.

Ah yes...I though so.

Another question: Krain and Istria are currently Italian. Should they be something else? German? Southslavic?

Yes. In fact Carinthia, Krain and Istria should be all 'south slavic'.
The ancestors of modern day Slovenians(Karantanians/Carinthians) lived in Carinthia and Krain as early as 6th century and founded the first stable south slavic state.
 

Brownbeard

Hostile native
60 Badges
Apr 26, 2004
3.103
1.779
www.index.hr
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
  • Europa Universalis III: Collection
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Pride of Nations
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Knights of Honor
  • Surviving Mars
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Commander: Conquest of the Americas
  • Deus Vult
  • East India Company
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • For The Glory
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron III Collection
  • Hearts of Iron II: Armageddon
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Majesty 2 Collection
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Supreme Ruler 2020
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • Warlock 2: The Exiled
Krunoslav said:
Ah yes...I though so.



Yes. In fact Carinthia, Krain and Istria should be all 'south slavic'.
The ancestors of modern day Slovenians(Karantanians/Carinthians) lived in Carinthia and Krain as early as 6th century and founded the first stable south slavic state.

maybe even steiermark as well, since germanization was a process that lasted for centuries. even today half of steiermark is southslavic.
 

unmerged(27913)

Pessimus Dux Sclavorum
Apr 16, 2004
2.165
0
Solmyr said:
There is the currently unused Abghazian culture tag. In 1.02 it was used in the Berber areas, but it's not used in 1.03. Possibilities

What are berber areas?! Mauretania, Tunis, North Africa? Muslim Spain?
 

unmerged(27913)

Pessimus Dux Sclavorum
Apr 16, 2004
2.165
0
Well I renamed the Abghazian culture to Berber and added it in whole North Africa from Canaries to Sultanate of Fatmids and in the whole Muslim Spain and Sicily.

I know it's not perfect, but it's much better than to have it Arab.
 

unmerged(27913)

Pessimus Dux Sclavorum
Apr 16, 2004
2.165
0
I don't agree. They certainly weren't more Arab. Especially Spain. They were Moors. Since I can't spare another tag it's far more simple to name them Berbers since they were closer to them than to Arabs.
 

unmerged(27913)

Pessimus Dux Sclavorum
Apr 16, 2004
2.165
0
They were definately Arab influenced as all other people were in North Africa and Middle East. That doesn't makes them Arabs though. Besides even today we don't have a prescise definition of a 'Moor'.
 

Earl Uhtred

Unfurl The Bratwurst
67 Badges
Feb 16, 2002
6.435
444
nope.com
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • 500k Club
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Cities: Skylines Deluxe Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Hearts of Iron II: Beta
  • Pride of Nations
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Victoria 2
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Achtung Panzer
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Darkest Hour
  • Deus Vult
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Divine Wind
  • Cities in Motion 2
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria: Revolutions
How about this? Light green is Berber, dark green is mostly Arab.

ArabBerber_1066.gif
 

Earl Uhtred

Unfurl The Bratwurst
67 Badges
Feb 16, 2002
6.435
444
nope.com
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • 500k Club
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Cities: Skylines Deluxe Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Hearts of Iron II: Beta
  • Pride of Nations
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Victoria 2
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Achtung Panzer
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Darkest Hour
  • Deus Vult
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Divine Wind
  • Cities in Motion 2
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria: Revolutions
Solmyr said:
Looks mostly fine, though I think the Zirids in Tunisia were Berbers rather than Arabs.

I was wondering about that. I think - not sure - they were Arabs ruling over a largely Berber population.

And I still think there weren't that many Berbers in Andalusia yet in 1066. They came later with the Almoravids.

The map I used for Spain represented 1030, though I appreciate a line on a map is not the best way to represent the Arab-Berber relationship in Iberia or elsewhere.