Btw, did anyone notice that 1.03 now uses Latin culture for the Languedoc/Provencal area? Interesting.
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They added a huge list of Occitanian names at the end of the character names file. At least I assume they are Occitanian, they look that to me anyway. Papal names are still in though, probably should be deleted now so we don't get a lot of Popes in Provence. 
They've also copied over the Catalan name list for some reason, with some duplication from the original one.
They've also copied over the Catalan name list for some reason, with some duplication from the original one.
I agree with Brownbeard. I don't see how can splitting "south slavic" culture provoke flamewars. I mean it's a bit stupid to have Bulgarian, Serbian, Croatian all under one culture.
Varazdin, Krizevci, Zagreb, Veglia, Usora, Zahumlje, Senj, Zadar, Split and Ragusa should be Croatian culture...if there can be Bohemian culture or Polish culture there can be Bulgarian, Croatian and Serbian.
Also what is with Slovaks? I though they should be living in northern part of K.of Hungary yet the culture there is 'Hungarian'?!?! The same goes for Slovenians in Krain and Carinithia....
Varazdin, Krizevci, Zagreb, Veglia, Usora, Zahumlje, Senj, Zadar, Split and Ragusa should be Croatian culture...if there can be Bohemian culture or Polish culture there can be Bulgarian, Croatian and Serbian.
Also what is with Slovaks? I though they should be living in northern part of K.of Hungary yet the culture there is 'Hungarian'?!?! The same goes for Slovenians in Krain and Carinithia....
Krunoslav said:
Agree with that point to certain point - northern Hungary should have definitely slavic culture.
Magyar tribes came to central europe in 9th and 10 century, the area was populated by slavonic tribes at least since 6th century (historical sources differ somehow), first slavonic state entities were formed in 8th century. So even if nobility was 100% magyar/hungarian, population itself could not be converted yet (and if there are slovaks in EU2, they could not apper from nowhere). Slavonic population in Hungary should cover at least 3 provinces of Duchy of Slovakia, eventually 5-6 northern provinces.
Also, at least some of those slavonic provinces should be orthodox - till 9th century the area was the rule of slavonic Great Moravian empire, which adopted orthodox rites and has close religious ties with Byzantium. Orthodox monasteries in slovakia existed till 14-15th century, and the religion is still present in the eastern part of the country.
The only problem i see is the lack of free culture tags...
Would westernslavic fit the Slovaks? It's a bit of a catchall tag (we now use it for Pomeranians and Wends/Obodrites).
Solmyr said:
Pommeranians should have their own tag,definitely. Btw - did you check nationalities maps of that era? I have feeling, that also some part of eastern Germany should be slavonic too (Luzian serbs, nowadays assimilated).
Eastern slav tag is not free?
Sort of solution could be making north Hungary bohemian. Of course, they are not the same nationalities, but 1000 years ago the differences were much smaller that now. Languages,customs,habits etc. between those two were much closer that for example bohemians-germans or slovaks-hungarians. The difference could be modeled by orthodox religion in northern Hungary.
Only problem would be the EU2 conversion.
Easternslavic tag is not used now, it might be a good alternative. Or Bohemian orthodox.
Solmyr said:
Well, i´d like to have slovak culture separated (especially because of EU2 conversion and possible "re-creation" of Great Moravia), but eastern slavic may be more needed in some other area (bulgarian seems quite needed, they were not slavonic after all).
Dutch culture should be expanded to the flemish provinces though: Brabant, Brugge, Gent, Ypres and Guines should have dutch culture in the 1066 scenario.
The majority of the people there spoke flemish (which is part of the Dutch language family) until far after the end of CK. Even the city-administrations were in most cases in flemish (except when dealing with the ruler, and then only in certain circumstances) once they switched from latin.
The majority of the people there spoke flemish (which is part of the Dutch language family) until far after the end of CK. Even the city-administrations were in most cases in flemish (except when dealing with the ruler, and then only in certain circumstances) once they switched from latin.
On a similar note, should the lands of old Lorraine (Upper Lorraine, Luxembourg) and the German part of Burgundy (Besancon) be German rather than Frankish? I think they didn't become French until much later.
I agree about Lorraine. I guess the question is "What is Frankish?" and, to me, the answer is "French", while Lotharingia, save Burgundy, would be "German".
For that matter, how about renaming Frankish culture to French in the bugfix? That's what it basically represents after all, now with the Occitans being separate.
Solmyr said:
yeah, it would -imho- also be more historically. somehow I doubt the french called themselves (at least the rulers) frankish instead of french by scenario start.
Frankish really, for me, harks back to the time of the great migrations and the germanic tribe that conquered Gaul (Clodovech) and later on the Carolingian Empire. When the scenario begins these times are long since past.
Solmyr said:
What about Bretons? They were different from french at least as much as occitans?
Yeah, I was wondering why not 'French' myself.
Why is Labourd Castilian? Should be either 'Frankish' or Basque.
Why is Labourd Castilian? Should be either 'Frankish' or Basque.
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IMHO the Bretons should be Welsh language... and the Scots should be Irish language.
We're talking 1066, not 1400s. During this time period, Scots hadn't really divorced themselves from their ancestry in Ireland, and their names were spelled as if they were Irish...
We're talking 1066, not 1400s. During this time period, Scots hadn't really divorced themselves from their ancestry in Ireland, and their names were spelled as if they were Irish...
Friedrich II said:
French reflects the Breton aristocracy's naming habits better, though - by this date, anyway.
Not for the whole area. Gaelic should be restricted to Galloway, the western seaboard and perhaps the core of the Scottish kingdom around what is Angus and Atholl in CK. We lack information for the NE but Gaelic will suffice. There is evidence Clydesdale was Brittonic until the C12. For Edinburgh, Strathcarron, Cunninghame and the Scottish border country Scottish culture is appropriate from 1066.
You know, I wouldn't mind an Insular Norse culture for Dublin, Man, the Hebrides , Caithness and Anglo-Scandinavians in England and abroad.
Earl Uhtred said:
I wouldn't mind having a few characters with such traits, but by 1066, most of the ruling elite weren't norse.