Separate the administrative and diplomatic components of "cores"

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Toa Kraka

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Dec 25, 2011
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Currently, a "core" grants both administrative benefits (gives more taxes and manpower, representing the extension of administrative apparatus from your capital) and diplomatic benefits (costs less to take in war, representing international recognition of the lawfulness of your ownership), but costs only administrative power. On the other hand, a "claim" grants diplomatic benefits but costs no diplomatic power.

Proposed:
- A "core" (or "civil administration") costs administrative power to be created. It represents only administration, and has zero diplomatic connotation.
- - A core is lost upon the loss of the province (unless you're giving the province away willingly--in which case, you hand over your administrative records to the new owner, granting a discount to the new owner's coring cost when it integrates the records into its own administrative system).
- A "claim" costs diplomatic power to be fabricated on a foreign province or created in an owned province.
- - Claims do not expire (even if the claimants no longer exist), but you can remove foreign claims on your land by spending diplomatic power of your own. (Compare both EU4's existing culture-conversion mechanic and V2's event chain for removing foreign cores.)
- - If you conquer or colonize an unclaimed province, you still have to create a claim in that province afterward. Creating a claim in a province that contains no other claims (terra nullius--usually, a colonized province) is free. Creating a claim in a cored province is cheaper than usual ("Possession is nine-tenths of the law", and a non-cored province is effectively "possessed", not by you, but by autonomous locals who have agreed to respect your overlordship and maybe send you some tribute), but creating a core in a claimed province is not cheaper (the locals don't care about whether or not foreign countries think your rule is legitimate).
- - In peace deals, "Return Core" is replaced with "Return Claim" (remember, foreign cores don't exist), and "Reconquest" and "Conquest" are identical (though there could be a distinction between "claim created on owned province" and "claim fabricated on a foreign province").

See also the "Martial Law" that MEIOU & Taxes has implemented. The M&T version reappropriates overextension to subtract directly from your income and your manpower cap for every non-core province (rather than increasing global revolt risk), representing the temporary conversion of mobile armies to stationary military police in order to keep the peace in provinces that don't yet have civil administration. In this system, you might be able to switch a province from "civil administration" (costs administrative power to implement, increases tax and manpower) to "martial law" (costs military power to implement, decreases unrest).

See also this proof of concept, which allows vanilla's "cores" to be created with diplomatic power in foreign provinces or with administrative power in owned provinces
 
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Speaking from an SP perspective:

Why would I bother creating claims? I never lose provinces.
 
Speaking from an SP perspective: Why would I bother creating claims? I never lose provinces.
A country with a high proportion of non-claimed provinces gets penalties to aggressive expansion and diplomatic reputation, since it's snubbing the international community by not bothering to justify its conquests.
 
A country with a high proportion of non-claimed provinces gets penalties to aggressive expansion and diplomatic reputation, since it's snubbing the international community by not bothering to justify its conquests.
I see.

So it's fake-optional and you just want to make cores cost ADM+DIP with a micromanagey layer of cruft in.
 
So it's fake-optional and you just want to make cores cost ADM+DIP with a micromanagey layer of cruft in.
- The current awkward "territorial core" could be replaced by a province that's claimed but not cored. Why should a country be less eager to conduct reconquest for territorial land than for closely-administered land? Maybe cores could be created only in states.
- The current awkward "core, add to HRE, then release as a new prince" process could be replaced by a "claim (but don't core), add to HRE, then release as a new prince" process. What does administrative power have to do with creating a new prince in the HRE?
 
- The current awkward "territorial core" could be replaced by a province that's claimed but not cored. Why should a country be less eager to conduct reconquest for territorial land than for closely-administered land? Maybe cores could be created only in states.
Given various game-mechanical assumptions currently prevailing, "cores only createable in states" = "state limit is an absolute hard cap on your size, encouraging really perverse gameplay in an effort to extract maximum benefit from your state cap".
- The current awkward "core, add to HRE, then release as a new prince" process could be replaced by a "claim (but don't core), add to HRE, then release as a new prince" process. What does administrative power have to do with creating a new prince in the HRE?
I tend to regard adding provinces to the HRE as a conceptual problem in the first place; neither the Habsburgs nor the Hohenzollerns ever considered adding any of their extra-Imperial territorial acquisitions to the HRE.
 
Given various game-mechanical assumptions currently prevailing, "cores only createable in states" = "state limit is an absolute hard cap on your size, encouraging really perverse gameplay in an effort to extract maximum benefit from your state cap".
Well, maybe I'm thinking too much of CK2 (or M&T), in which the majority of "your" land usually is owned by semi-autonomous vassals (or estates) rather than being under your direct control. I'll admit that I haven't actually played EU4 in a very long time, and thought of this idea while contemplating a manual conversion of my current CK2 campaign, in which I would impose some rather severe changes on the vanilla estate system to force a gradual transition from CK2's "mostly territories" to EU4's "mostly states".
I tend to regard adding provinces to the HRE as a conceptual problem in the first place; neither the Habsburgs nor the Hohenzollerns ever considered adding any of their extra-Imperial territorial acquisitions to the HRE.
Okay, here's a better reason to have a claimed province without a core: separatism. A province with tons of unrest from separatism will just get occupied by rebels, and the rebels will trash the local administrative office, destroying your core and wasting your administrative power. Rather than coring a high-unrest province with administrative power, you want to use military power to institute martial law. (Again, see M&T for an alternate perspective: spending manpower and money rather than military power.)
 
Okay, here's a better reason to have a claimed province without a core: separatism. A province with tons of unrest from separatism will just get occupied by rebels,
No it won't.

It will have rebels spawn. They will die a pointless death, spawncamped by my army. EDIT: Then I can leave the province unguarded for ten years and use that army to do something else, after which time the separatism may well have subsided to manageable levels.
 
No it won't.
But, if you're low on manpower and want to save it for blobbing rather than wasting it on rebels (and can't a faction of EU4 rebels spawn simultaneously in multiple provinces at once? Or am I misremembering?), you can use military power instead.
 
Harsh Treatment is only useful against slow-burning revolts.
 
Harsh Treatment is only useful against slow-burning revolts.
I'm talking about permanent Martial Law, not temporary Harsh Treatment.
In this system, you might be able to switch a province from "civil administration" (costs administrative power to implement, increases tax and manpower) to "martial law" (costs military power to implement, decreases unrest).
- A core (Civil Administration) significantly increases taxes and manpower in the long term (and overwrites martial law).
- Martial law significantly decreases unrest in the long term (and overwrites civil administration).
- Harsh treatment significantly decreases unrest in the short term:, but doesn't overwrite civil administration or martial law. It costs less military power than martial law in the short term, so it's good if you've got a short-term province modifier that's temporarily increasing unrest--but, if you'll need to renew harsh treatment repeatedly in the long term, then imposing martial law is more economical overall.
 
It all sounds - as you admit - very MEIOU.

I'll just point you at my forum signature.