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Sarin

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What are you smoking, my man. This division is laughably weak

I play with a guy with 86% win ratio and he loves them and destroys other decks with them.

Engineers are an insta win for just about any forest fight, and if you can micro. Town engagement combined with mortar support, or other arty.

A lack of two stars and people suddenly scream that it is terrible.
 

Yung Rommel

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faust has 84% hit chance and bazooka has only 42% (58% at 150 m though).

The extra range is ofc a huge bonus for the bazooka.

Definitely
What are you smoking, my man. This division is laughably weak, both in 1v1 and 2v2. Being a huge fan of infantry decks I've been waiting return of 6 AB since closed beta and was super thrilled abut 101st and 3. FJ. Now when I got my precious paratroopers back, 6 AB was cut to pieces and no longer playable against decent players and 101st is just a laughing stock of all infantry divisions. I was so sure that such a meme division would be represented as all-round strong division, but no. I've played it like ten games and played against them both in fun games and in ranked and it's a pathetic sight. And 3 FJ turned out to be so stupidly overpowered that I simply can't enjoy such a ridiculously strong deck because it takes all the fun from the game.
And then I go on forums and see posts like that and I'm genuinely baffled, I'm not even sure we're playing the same game.

I'll keep on saying it, but 3rd FJ doesn't have the cheap units to be effective in 1v1. Vs an armor deck your going to get shut down, and vs a deck like the 101st you won't be able to hold the map.
 

Sarin

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Oh wow, you're playing with THAT guy? This changes everything.

Yes because a good player thinking the deck is viable, and then beating other decks with it is less important than your feed back of.

What are you smoking, my man. This division is laughably weak

Try not to get upset that other people have different opinions than you do.

Maybe the deck just doesn't suit your play style, yet suits someone else's.
Why do so many people seem to think that all 18 decks must adjust and all fit their own play style and individual desires for a deck ?

If 101st doesn't suit you but suits other people, and they do very well with it. Then maybe it isn't laughably weak and instead you don't play it right, or you play it in a way that another deck would suit you better.
 

TGApples

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What are you smoking, my man. This division is laughably weak, both in 1v1 and 2v2. Being a huge fan of infantry decks I've been waiting return of 6 AB since closed beta and was super thrilled abut 101st and 3. FJ. Now when I got my precious paratroopers back, 6 AB was cut to pieces and no longer playable against decent players and 101st is just a laughing stock of all infantry divisions. I was so sure that such a meme division would be represented as all-round strong division, but no. I've played it like ten games and played against them both in fun games and in ranked and it's a pathetic sight. And 3 FJ turned out to be so stupidly overpowered that I simply can't enjoy such a ridiculously strong deck because it takes all the fun from the game.
And then I go on forums and see posts like that and I'm genuinely baffled, I'm not even sure we're playing the same game.
Oh, it's not that bad. They're better than 6AD. Flamethower infantry are pretty hot. They have mortars. They have pop-guns for light AT. Their plane trains are pretty hard to counter.

For me it comes down to the map. On a map where a reasonable amount of the fighting is expected to be up-close they do well. On a more open map they're going to run into AT issues in B and C and do poorly. Your only hope then is the plane train.

I'd say they're a top tier deck on the maps where they're a top tier deck (maybe even the best deck). They're a lower tier deck (but not as bad as 6AB) on maps where they're a lower tier deck.

I'll keep on saying it, but 3rd FJ doesn't have the cheap units to be effective in 1v1. Vs an armor deck your going to get shut down, and vs a deck like the 101st you won't be able to hold the map.
I believe that currently a lot of the people near the top of the rankings play 3rd FJ quite a bit. Maybe not exclusively, but quite a bit.

Now, to be fair, exact placements in rankings right now aren't very meaningful as they're strongly correlated with games played (and will be for a little while), but win ratios are high. Also, most of the people up there would win most of their games with most decks, but the fact that several people with these high win ratios are saying the FJ are good tells a tale.
 
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Think Tanker

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Definitely


I'll keep on saying it, but 3rd FJ doesn't have the cheap units to be effective in 1v1. Vs an armor deck your going to get shut down, and vs a deck like the 101st you won't be able to hold the map.
You seem to be forgetting the invisible AP advantage of the Panzerfaust.
 

Tankhunter__

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You seem to be forgetting the invisible AP advantage of the Panzerfaust.

Does the AP advantage really matter for the Faust? It doesn't really see anything above 15 armor unless you're fighting 3rd AD. I forget the faust's AP power, but IIRC it's less than 20 anyways. Bazookas still have 17 AP(IIRC) which are good for front shots on anything except KTs. So neither the faust nor the bazooka can kill the heaviest opposing tanks from the front.
 

Think Tanker

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Does the AP advantage really matter for the Faust? It doesn't really see anything above 15 armor unless you're fighting 3rd AD. I forget the faust's AP power, but IIRC it's less than 20 anyways. Bazookas still have 17 AP(IIRC) which are good for front shots on anything except KTs. So neither the faust nor the bazooka can kill the heaviest opposing tanks from the front.
It means that the AB Rifles are poorly suited to take out larger AFVs with their Bazooka unless the enemy decides to graciously show his/her side armor. The AP bonus and the accuracy bonus alone are more than warranties the status of a better AT weapon, especially considering how long they take to reload.
 

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It means that the AB Rifles are poorly suited to take out larger AFVs with their Bazooka unless the enemy decides to graciously show his/her side armor. The AP bonus and the accuracy bonus alone are more than warranties the status of a better AT weapon, especially considering how long they take to reload.

but the bazooka already overmatches most enemy armor outside of the KT. If the bazooka has 17AP(infantry AT's AP Power is in the files, the Shreck has 20AP IIRC because it is the same rocket as the puppchen), it tops the Panther A/G by 3. That gives a fairly good chance at penetrating frontal armor. It's not like you're always shooting front armor either, especially with infantry AT. You're often flanking and attacking out of forests, and sideshots are common especially since frontal armor is only a 30 degree arc IIRC. I don't think the AP power matters at all in the discussion because you're going to pen 99% of enemy vehicles anyways. It's a matter of range vs accuracy.
 

Yung Rommel

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Oh, it's not that bad. They're better than 6AD. Flamethower infantry are pretty hot. They have mortars. They have pop-guns for light AT. Their plane trains are pretty hard to counter.

For me it comes down to the map. On a map where a reasonable amount of the fighting is expected to be up-close they do well. On a more open map they're going to run into AT issues in B and C and do poorly. Your only hope then is the plane train.

I'd say they're a top tier deck on the maps where they're a top tier deck (maybe even the best deck). They're a lower tier deck (but not as bad as 6AB) on maps where they're a lower tier deck.


I believe that currently a lot of the people near the top of the rankings play 3rd FJ quite a bit. Maybe not exclusively, but quite a bit.

Now, to be fair, exact placements in rankings right now aren't very meaningful as they're strongly correlated with games played (and will be for a little while), but win ratios are high. Also, most of the people up there would win most of their games with most decks, but the fact that several people with these high win ratios are saying the FJ are good tells a tale.

I accept the fact that high ranked players are doing well with 3rd FJ. I personally think the presence of Stugs in B and infantry guns would probably put it above 101st in utility on more maps. As an infantry fighting deck and airspam deck I think the 101st comes out on top though. In 2v2 there is definite synergy between 101st and 3rd armored for instance: I don't really see this with the 3rd FJ and Lehr, because the 3rd FJ's advantage over 101st only matters in a 1v1 scenario due to self self sufficiency of the BG. (Coincidentally, 3rd Armored is a better 1v1 deck than Lehr..the relationship between these 4 divisions seems intentional.)
 

local-festival

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Oh, it's not that bad. They're better than 6AD. Flamethower infantry are pretty hot. They have mortars. They have pop-guns for light AT. Their plane trains are pretty hard to counter.

For me it comes down to the map. On a map where a reasonable amount of the fighting is expected to be up-close they do well. On a more open map they're going to run into AT issues in B and C and do poorly. Your only hope then is the plane train.
I don't know, it's that bad for me. I mean of course I've won every game learning the deck in custom games, but that's only because I've played against those 86% guys. Hell, in this scenario Red Devils are good deck because I'm winning games with them. But once you try to play against roughly equally skilled opponents you start to feel the helplessness of this deck. Apart of flamethrowers they have nothing to bring on the table. ZERO fire support, laughable tanks for 70 pts that are as helpless as tetrarchs. I've had a 3. FJ's autocannon tank take on two M22 in a numerous engagements and it decimates them: one cheaper tanks kills two more expensive tanks on range close to minimum effective, that's not nearly adequate in my book.
At least Red Devils can field CS Tetrarch which can somewhat help against infantry and vetted mortars with off map arty in order to try cheesy opening. There's also Mosquito that can help you out really big in certain situations.
But 6th Airborne and 101st are overall in the same league (bottom of the barrel one). I'm so frustrated because 3. FJ is for some reasons so crazily better than its Allied counterparts. The only redeeming quality of 101st is their income, it allows you to buy a lot of stuff and call in 'train of planes', the bad part is that these planes are absolutely horrible, admittedly that's a general problem with American planes - they are very bad, but one thought that at least Airborne will get experienced fighters. When opponent calls in ME with two stars that outperforms two Mustangs you scratch your head thinking what the hell.
 

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I agree that M22s suck against autocannons. I also agree that they have a lack of fire support. This really hurts on maps where you have to cross small amounts of open terrain in important areas.

On other maps the centreline has a large area covered by a town or a deep forest (eg. Carpiquet, Caumont L'Evente) with the rest of the map open. AT guns + MGs can hold the open ground. Flames rule the town or deep forest.

The plane train is something that snowballs. Sure, two mustangs struggle against the two star 109 (though with speed you can often not lose either). You can call in an awful lot of mustangs however, and an awful lot of bombs.

The sheer number of maps we have may lead to our experiences being quite different. There's 14 1v1 maps. Some of them I've not played in ranked yet, some of them I've played 3-4 times. I still think they're top-tier if they get the right map (and sometimes only the right side of the right map). Does that make them a viable 1v1 deck? Probably not. Their weaknesses mean that on the wrong map they suck. I think there may be more wrong maps than right maps.
 
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M22s straight up sucks. Not that they were good IRL but they suck so bad that honestly i wish that work got put into antother vehicle or unit like maybe putting in a P-47D Bubble top as thats porbably one of the most Beautiful planes ever made right behind the P-51D. Also Gabby never flew the razorback in Normandy. M22 tho could use a price decrease but i dont really like asking for buffs on units that i believe shouldnt be ingame.
 

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play nice on the forum or don't play. posts deleted / infractions handed out
 

Lomak

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Support tab is really disappointing and I think some will agree that moving command vehicle and M8 Scott to phase A would be a good suggestion.

Engineers is all that this division has to offer.
 

Think Tanker

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Support tab is really disappointing and I think some will agree that moving command vehicle and M8 Scott to phase A would be a good suggestion.

Engineers is all that this division has to offer.
It would definitely help, but I don't think it is realistic either, so probably a no-go on that front. In contrast, AB Rifles could go with an additional star of vet (nothing for other groups, as we must be judicious as not to make veteran/elite units overly common ala ALB/RD) and the Glider Rifles could probably use a buff in the form of replacing a lot of their M1 Garands with Carbines, a weapon specifically designed for airborne troops, tanks crews and the like.
 

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101 + a city fight = ... everything is in ruins and aflame.

20170529224715_1.jpg

101 ab is pretty op in cities to be honest its crazy how good these vet 50 cal and engineers are with minimal micro. And HUGE 350 mm arti barrages plus the airstrikes.
You automatically snatch the city early in A. Then you do airstrikes. The opponent spends money in AA. You switch to offmap. and then some tanks and vet 2 wolverines/ at guns if needed. and then the game ends

Im enjoying it so much.
 
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