101st Discussion Thread

[Think Tanker]

In exuberant anticipation for the release of Steel Division, I decided it may be nice to release a little talk thread on the 101st, and what people's initial reactions to the deck are...

At least from my perspective I think this will be a very interesting deck. It has fantastic general-purpose and specialized infantry alike, but lacks the critical fire support vehicles to really help them make a dedicated push. This is somewhat alleviated by the albeit immobile M2HB teams in Phase A, and the access to M22 Locusts (tanks always help) but I do feel that, if not for every deck which has them, the .50 Cal jeep in this deck should really go down to 30 CP, being a better armed but drastically inferior armored FSV when compared to its British .30 cal peer also at 30 CP. For reference, the 20mm German FSV is also at 35 CP with armor, and multi-purpose fire support.

Besides that the deck looks interesting, strong in Phase A through overwhelming firepower, but I can see it really, really struggling in Phase B, which is uncommon for a lot of Allied decks. I expect that this is certainly a team player deck, and is going to be ill-suited for 1v1 engagements.

But what do you all think?

 

[I WUB PUGS]

It seems pretty clear what Eugen is doing with 6th AB and 101st respectively.

I'm actually going to amend my statement about 6th AB being great in heavy bocage. I think it is strictly a city-centric deck that for all intents and purposes is immovable once entrenched. I don't believe it is the off-map or the Mosquitos, I think it's the triple-star SMG toting Red Devils that simply will not die.

101st is clearly the masters of the bocage. The flamethrower team, the mobile 37mm guns that can be pushed around between the rows, all that HE from the Garands, the .50 cal teams that can hold towns by themselves and the M22's are clearly superior to the Tetrarchs due to the HE advantage. 101st also gets organic 105mm howitzers and what appears to be the best plane tab in the game. They lack proper ATG's but at least 101st makes up for it with bazookas everywhere and some M10's that can do work if cared for.

I really like 6th AB but it is so damn limited and struggles mightily when it cannot keep hard cover and triple up the stars. I think 101st will probably still get mauled in cities a bit when it runs into 3rd FSJ, but it has enough infantry and planes of varying use to be very very very good where there is ample cover to push through.

Of the 3 airborne divisions in game, I think 101st will be the 2nd best overall. 6th is niche and 3rd FSJ just look's like a monster.

Still, I think 101st will be my favorite American deck. I'm not an artillery spammer so 101st is sort of taking a lot the things I like about 2ID without needing to rely too much on artillery. I prefer a lot of infantry play and the 10 slots has me really excited.

 

[Omega_Warrior]

101st seems really reliant on airpower. Which makes their lack of phase A anti-air really worry me. American fighters aren't very good at dogfighting and it seems like it'd be real easy to steal air-dominance from them early and keep it.

 

[Yung Rommel]

It seems pretty clear what Eugen is doing with 6th AB and 101st respectively.

I'm actually going to amend my statement about 6th AB being great in heavy bocage. I think it is strictly a city-centric deck that for all intents and purposes is immovable once entrenched. I don't believe it is the off-map or the Mosquitos, I think it's the triple-star SMG toting Red Devils that simply will not die.

101st is clearly the masters of the bocage. The flamethrower team, the mobile 37mm guns that can be pushed around between the rows, all that HE from the Garands, the .50 cal teams that can hold towns by themselves and the M22's are clearly superior to the Tetrarchs due to the HE advantage. 101st also gets organic 105mm howitzers and what appears to be the best plane tab in the game. They lack proper ATG's but at least 101st makes up for it with bazookas everywhere and some M10's that can do work if cared for.

I really like 6th AB but it is so damn limited and struggles mightily when it cannot keep hard cover and triple up the stars. I think 101st will probably still get mauled in cities a bit when it runs into 3rd FSJ, but it has enough infantry and planes of varying use to be very very very good where there is ample cover to push through.

Of the 3 airborne divisions in game, I think 101st will be the 2nd best overall. 6th is niche and 3rd FSJ just look's like a monster.

Still, I think 101st will be my favorite American deck. I'm not an artillery spammer so 101st is sort of taking a lot the things I like about 2ID without needing to rely too much on artillery. I prefer a lot of infantry play and the 10 slots has me really excited.

With the phase A economy I definitely see this being the only airborne deck where you can actually form little pockets of resistance behind enemy lines. Phase A air options are worrying though.

 

[frout]

101st seems really reliant on airpower. Which makes their lack of phase A anti-air really worry me. American fighters aren't very good at dogfighting and it seems like it'd be real easy to steal air-dominance from them early and keep it.

The 101st has numerical superiority in the skies : 8 slots for aircrafts, 2 planes per card, up to 6 Phase-A fighter bombers over the battlefield, Phase-A economy = 100.

 

[Vyllis]

101st is sort of taking a lot the things I like about 2ID without needing to rely too much on artillery. I prefer a lot of infantry play and the 10 slots has me really excited.

Same here, i wished for an infantry deck without the need to spam artillery or have more tanks than ever.

Also, remember they still have 38 AP, not 40. More slots or a lot of cards does not always mean more units overall.

 

[Think Tanker]

Tested them a few rounds and they feel a little underpowered. Their infantry could probably do with some more Vet (especially at the price point they are given at) and have access to the Spotter piece in Phase A, not B. Currently as they are they are somewhat over-shined by many decks for some gimmicks that really fail to fill in their weak points.

Edit: Also, why does the 37mm AT have less ROF than the 42mm German AT gun? (10 RPM vs 12 RPM)

 

[Sanny]

First thing I heard whilst trying them was "Lipton, Malarkey get over here! Let's move Easy Company"

It's an interesting deck, feels just about right for an Airborne deck.

 

[Bishmoo]

I think "Think Tank" is totally right. This deck needs some veterancy sprinkled around. The offmap artillery in phase A would be a great but not too big change, especially considering that offmap often has it's greatest utility in that first engagement, being able to push back a key unit right as it gets in to position can mean the difference between taking and not taking a tactical hedgerow that determines the course of the next few minutes or longer. Perhaps moving one of the smaller offmaps they have to phase A and adding x2 of the larger one in C?

Edit: 10 man squad with 2 lmg and a thomson and regular rifles? This would fill a gap in the allied infantry lineup that could answer to fallschmirjagers.

 

[Think Tanker]

Comparable decks seem to have better vet in most regards, one could refer to the 3rd FsJ and see that it has 2/1 star primary infantry, compared to 1/0 primary infantry for the 101st, athe the same availability, I should mention. It also has much better vet on its AT guns and what few tanks it does have. Even in the air the FsJ have 2-star Me 109s which kind of mitigate the utility of 5he 101st's absent air advantage.

 

[Sarin]

Falls ME fighters fly at 550 kmph
Bad resilience
Very good turning.
8 HE all up
140 points

2x 1 per card, double upvet Phase A

3x 2 per card, single upvet from Phase B.


VERSUS


101st Mustang fighters fly at 700kmph
Bad resilience
Good turning
6 HE all up.
150 points

2x 2 per card no vet Phase A
2x 1 per card upvet Phase A

2x 3 per card no vent Phase B
1x 2 per card upvet Phase B


So allies fly MUCH faster but turn slower.
Cannot be caught by German fighters, can easily catch German fighters.
However they do less damage and cost 10 points more.

German has 1x more upvet but less availability.

Germans can bring 2 fighters in A, and 6 in B. 8 total A - B
Allies can bring 6 fighter in A, and 14 fighters in B. 20 total A - B

German 8 fighters versus Allies 20 fighters.
Falls versus 101st.

 

[local-festival]

This division is pretty weak, just like 6th Airborne, probably even worse due to inferior (to everyone) air and M22 being priced at 70pts whilst they're as useless as Tetrarchs. 11 men flamers are cool for forests but it doesn't make a division playable. It doesn't get much veterancy either. Compared to all round super start 3. Falls line up it's really disappointing to see 101th.

 

[Yung Rommel]

On paper 101st is mediocre.

In practice it's the best infantry centered deck ingame. You get super high early income with infantry comparable to FJ but cheaper and more well rounded. Light mortars are plentiful and howitzers are efficient. Mustangs aren't good dogfighters but are absurdly fast. You also basically have an unlimited supply of decent infantry with Glider Rifles.

 

[Max_Damage]

The div is very awesome in towns and for infantry combat. 10 man flamethrowers are unparallelled plus the 50 cal with vet is GREAT.

Very powerful air tab as well.

Very weak arti and antitank tabs though! antitank in A is pretty good but a Wittmann tiger will make this div cry in B because 57mm wont even penetrate its side armor.

TLDR is a quintessential AB deck and im happy to be able to play it. Flavor, balance, awesome.

 

[frout]

Very weak arti and antitank tabs though!

But tons of fighter-bombers and heavy bombers : P-51s, P-47s, B-26 + rockets or bombs, some with one star...

 

[Lomak]

I wouldn't take it for anything else than 1v1 and in 1v1 their napalm infantry might be countered by napalm tanks so question will be who are they going to meet.

 

[TGApples]

They're certainly strong in the right scenario.

For example Caumont L'event 1v1, if you get the side with less of the massive forest. It's basically a large chunk of free ground (~2%) as nobody can effectively counter your flame throwers in there. Rocket and off map arty are the only real counters. It's very situational though: if you get the side with less of the massive forest they're not nearly so strong. Maybe there's a map imbalance here...

On the other hand Cote 112 is big an open, and there's not much space for your infantry to work. Maybe you can shut the game down with air play, depends on which Germans you're up against.

 

[KattiValk]

101st currently seems like a forest gimmick deck with the AB flamer squads. The deck's core is strong with great infantry at a lower vet than its peer AB decks, but I can't help but feel the all but inability to kill heavy armor really kills the deck. The lack of Phase A off-map makes the deck essentially a beefier 2ID except without most of the support and AT that makes the 2ID Phase A so strong. The other AB decks have this trump card tool that shifts momentum, but the 101st really just feels like an infantry division in Phase A sans AT and tanks without it.

That's not to say the 101st needs the off-map in Phase A, but it currently can't act in a general role without it, being relegated to forests and towns (as I said, gimmicky). This is compounded by the lack of real AT. The 101st is not so eco-friendly as to let you build the necessary air wall necessary to route enemy tanks on a regular basis and the lack of a trump AA piece like the Falls' 88s makes getting the air superiority necessary to pull off that kind of cheese difficult at best.

All in all, this deck is best suited for forests, and somewhat decent at towns (again, no Phase A off-map) compared to its peer AB divs.

IMO, the deck needs stronger AT capability. The Shermans do not make up for the lack of good early game AT that isn't a bazooka, and is the primary reason this deck feels so eh IMO.

 

[Think Tanker]

On paper 101st is mediocre.

In practice it's the best infantry centered deck ingame. You get super high early income with infantry comparable to FJ but cheaper and more well rounded. Light mortars are plentiful and howitzers are efficient. Mustangs aren't good dogfighters but are absurdly fast. You also basically have an unlimited supply of decent infantry with Glider Rifles.

I would argue that the exact opposite. On paper is appears to be a very good infantry-centered deck, but in practice it has a multitude of short-comings, none of which are alleviated by its supposed advantages. Its lack of effective AT support, for example, is not countered in the slightest by the 101st's air power, which is only really effective against soft targets. Its infantry, the bread and butter of the 101st, will lose to equivalent troops from the 3rd FsJ, which has better AT, and much better infantry performance at all ranges with exception to CQC. This is also compounded by the fact that, inexplicably, the 101st suffers from sub-par veteran status on most of its core, elite, units, which makes playing it to its strengths quite difficult. The massive Phase A income it has is nice, for sure, but for an infantry deck it is really overdoing it. For the French Motorized and Mechanized troops one really needs to take advantage of the Phase A income for fielding expensive AFVs, but when fighting with a infantry deck, this influx of resources early on is not so direly needed. Ironically, a deck so prolific with Bazookas is also the deck which struggles with any armored car that comes with a gun, this in part is due to the .50 Cals being ineffective against them, for whatever reason, but it is also because the 101st lacks an effective mobile support gun. The M22 Locust is nice for popping light transports, but it is laughably ineffective for supporting infantry and is about as durable as a halftrack in all matters, while lacking the versatility or accessibility that makes the latter so useful. It comes to a point where your best infantry support vehicles are the .50 Cal GMC and Jeep, both of which die to a literal sneeze.

In conclusion, I think the best course of action for the 101st would be to sprinkle some additional VET on units like aircraft and infantry, so the 101st can actually, effectively play to its strengths and achieve air superiority (keep in mind the 101st only really has fighters to support its advances, while all comparable decks have accessible AAA, and high VET fighter aircraft as well).

 

[Yung Rommel]

I would argue that the exact opposite. On paper is appears to be a very good infantry-centered deck, but in practice it has a multitude of short-comings, none of which are alleviated by its supposed advantages. Its lack of effective AT support, for example, is not countered in the slightest by the 101st's air power, which is only really effective against soft targets. Its infantry, the bread and butter of the 101st, will lose to equivalent troops from the 3rd FsJ, which has better AT, and much better infantry performance at all ranges with exception to CQC. This is also compounded by the fact that, inexplicably, the 101st suffers from sub-par veteran status on most of its core, elite, units, which makes playing it to its strengths quite difficult. The massive Phase A income it has is nice, for sure, but for an infantry deck it is really overdoing it. For the French Motorized and Mechanized troops one really needs to take advantage of the Phase A income for fielding expensive AFVs, but when fighting with a infantry deck, this influx of resources early on is not so direly needed. Ironically, a deck so prolific with Bazookas is also the deck which struggles with any armored car that comes with a gun, this in part is due to the .50 Cals being ineffective against them, for whatever reason, but it is also because the 101st lacks an effective mobile support gun. The M22 Locust is nice for popping light transports, but it is laughably ineffective for supporting infantry and is about as durable as a halftrack in all matters, while lacking the versatility or accessibility that makes the latter so useful. It comes to a point where your best infantry support vehicles are the .50 Cal GMC and Jeep, both of which die to a literal sneeze.

In conclusion, I think the best course of action for the 101st would be to sprinkle some additional VET on units like aircraft and infantry, so the 101st can actually, effectively play to its strengths and achieve air superiority (keep in mind the 101st only really has fighters to support its advances, while all comparable decks have accessible AAA, and high VET fighter aircraft as well).

In infantry fights 101st beats 3rd FJ. Higher income plus absurd prices of FJ mean that dealing with them is inherently cost effective. (60mm mortars..)

Lack of vet is compensated for by the squads themselves being the best ingame per role. AB Rifles are the ultimate generalist unit, with better AT and durability for 10 points less.

The airtab fighters are bad at gaining air superiority, but they're also incredibly hard to shoot down due to their speed. This basically leads to a situation where you can deploy like 10 Mustangs at one time, that can't be chased down if you evac early enough. Vet is nice but speed is also nice.