100 Years War and Other Concerns (as France)

[Maleficus]

OK, bear with me, not played EU4 in months and just came back to it a couple of days ago, but found myself having a few problems:

1.Is there any way to get all of England's French provinces (or at least the 4 that border France) off them in the initial war as France?


I've tried a few times, but run into the same old problems every time: England eventually stops landing troops in France and I can't get any ships out past England's ridiculous fleet (how the hell can they even afford the maintenance on that?) to get any troops occupying provinces over there. Thus the highest warscore I've managed is 57%, and would need 80-something to get the 4 provinces. Trying to do it in 2 wars always seems to result in England getting some big, mean allies while nobody wants to play nice with me.

I also found a suggestion somewhere to get England to release Normandy, and then take the cores off Normandy the next day before they get allies. Trouble with this is that I get stuck in a 5-year truce with Normandy as soon as they're released meaning I'd have to take a HUGE stability hit AND I inexplicably don't have a CB even though they have 2 of my cores so surely I should have reconquest. Oh AND taking MY CORES from apparently results in an aggressive expansion penalty. Yeah, that makes perfect sense :glare:

2. How can I get some decent allies?

Every other nation of note seems to have no trouble at all getting some really nice alliances going, yet the only decent countries who seem to be willing to be my allies are Aragon and Bohemia who are frankly both more trouble than they're worth. England and Burgundy always pick me as rivals and that's fine, that makes sense, and it's mutual. Castile and Austria always seem to pick me as rivals too, which doesn't make so much sense IMO. At this early stage I'm not competing with either of them for anything.

Is there some trick I'm missing or do France have some sort of diplo penalty or something?

3. Is there an "AI Aggressiveness" option hidden somewhere?

As I recall in EU3 this had to be turned to low to get anything vaguely resembling a sensible map after 100 years. In EU4 I can't find any such option, so wondered if it's been taken out or simply moved somewhere less obvious?

4. Ideas for ideas?

When it comes to picking my first couple of ideas I'm utterly stumped. I've usually ended up going with Aristocracy and Quality, but maybe I should be looking into economy a bit more. Bearing in mind England seems to be able to maintain an army close in size to mine and a much bigger fleet, and I'm pushing my economy to the limit trying to keep more soldiers than them, well.... it just seems like France should make more money than it does in the early days. At the same time, I don't want to be left behind in terms of military quality. Then again, given my dificulty getting any decent allies, maybe some diplomatic stuff would help. But, but.... With the reformation coming I could probably do with something to reduce revolt risk AND I really want to get a foot into the Caribbean before Spain take it all....

So yeah, I really can't decide which way to go here, any suggestions on what's a good balance/order?

5. Burgundian Inheritance

Is there anything I can do to have some influence over the Burgundian Inheritance firing? I recall it happening nearly every game just after release, but in 4 runs of about 100 years each as France, 1 of about 25 years as England and 1 of about 25 years as Austria in the last few days I've not seen it fire once. Did they take it out or something?

6. What's up with coalitions?

So as I understand coalitions, and as I remember them from before, basically if I attack a member of the coalition, the whole coalition comes after me, right? Well yesterday England made a coalition and then war decc'd me with the 'coalition' casus belli. Question is, since when was that a CB, and in whose bizarre imagination is that even fair or balanced that 10+ countries can attack me with no negative consequences just because they feel like it?

 

[unmerged(184583)]

1) never played as France, unless you invade all of England proper, I doubt it. Most I've seen the AI ever get was 3, and they actually did invade england proper in that scenario.

2) other nations don't like you because you are France. Don't mind, they are just jealous that you are the most powerful nation on the map at the moment. Improve relations with target nations, get royal marriages, rival their rivals, they will love you eventually, as long as you don't get too aggressive.

3) yes, in the game options when you are in the game staging. Ie. pick singleplayer, then it'll show up in those options on the bottom left.

4) again never played france, but I'd imagine diplomacy, quality, offensive, might be among my first choices.

5)not entirely sure about influencing it, i think if Burgundy is at war and losing that will help. It is definitely still there, my last game austria inherited that and also hungary pre 1490, gg.

 

[justin6477]

1. You can often take 3-4 provinces, but it requires you to hold out for the ticking warscore. You will however get tremendous AE for doing so. My personal strategy is to take Gascogne, Labourd, and Calais. Normandy is easily resieged later in a reconquest war, and you avoid the potential awkwardness of Basque rebels giving Labourd to Navarra.

2. You don't need allies. Your early game as France should focus on consolidation. Only look outward after you have integrated your vassals and removed tea & crumpets from the premises. However, Bohemia & Austria are fine enough allies against Burgundy.

3. I can't really answer this.

4. My idea set is usually: Economics, Defensive, Diplomacy, Offensive, Innovative, Quality. The final two aren't terribly relevant, I often pick up Naval and Espionage. France is a continental power, and you should probably abandon notions of global domination. Colonizing Germany is more practical and rewarding.

Typically, one should avoid an Admin set for their first idea choice as it will retard your progress towards the second idea set. Of the Mil ideas, Defensive is more-or-less the best one (Pluto is arguably better, but requires a republic) while aristocratic is the worst. Quality is also not as good as it seems since a third of the ideas benefit the navy, and you won't be a major naval force. I haven't tested it yet, but I suspect Quantity is a better choice for France. You may want to go Protestant, it'll give you a headache for a little while, but 10% cheaper ideas is always good. Economics and Administrative are both good idea sets to improve your production and taxation, I favor Economics but Admin has its charms.

5. The Burgundian Inheritance needs to happen before the 1500s. If Burgundy survives, it'll never fire. The only way to really impact it is to make sure Burgundy takes it on the chin in war after war. The HRE bits don't always go to Austria though, be wary of that. Milanese Netherlands is a weird thing to see.

 

[RLZ]

I am not an experienced player but I started playing this game with France.

1/ As far as I know France couldn't get all core provinces back from England in the first war due to the supremacy of English navy. Thus, I usually take 1-2 provinces or force them to release Wales/Cornwall and prepare for the 2nd war in which part of my troops are already in British isle.

France has a lot of potential enemies (Castile, Burgundy, Austria/HRE...). For me Castile is a good ally due to their navy and colonisation and I always hope for a PU (once I made an alliance with Austria and it didn't yield a good result). I never make an alliance with Burgundy due to the inheritance. I really want to wage war against them to get Holland/Antwerpen. That trade node is awesome.

2/ I notice that at the very beginning moment of the game, you click on Castile and if you see a heart, send the first diplomat to ask for a royal marriage, wait and send the second one for an alliance. Otherwise, quit and restart. I do it before everything else and it works perfectly. Also make Aragon your rival because Aragon always wants to conquer Navarre while Navarre always goes to Castile and this make Aragon Castile's enemy. Do this you receive +25 from 'Enemy of Enemy'.

I saw in AAR forum a topic for France. The author really makes a wonderful move. Check it out here:
http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum...ternite!-An-Ironman-French-Domination-Attempt

3/ No idea. EU4 is my first Paradox game.

4/ It really depends on your choice. At first I thought warfare ideas should be well-fit for France. It's true that they help you win a battle easily but you want a whole world. For me, the first one is 'Diplomatic Idea' which provides me +1 diplomat and I can annex my vassals faster. Later it increases French diplomatic relations and reputations.

Then I may go for Offensive/Defensive idea (depend on situation). Quality sounds good but at first it is just useless. If you have a good general and know where to pick a fight, you can save a lot of manpower (e.g. Alpes). Then, if you want colonisation go for exploration or religious/expansion idea for aggressive expansion.

5/ Burgundian king dies in war and they have no heir and France is not at war with Austria. The event is only applicable before 1500.

 

[Maleficus]

Thanks for the pointers guys, I'll try to put some of the stuff you've all said into action and see how it works out.

I'm not looking to do a WC or anything, but figured I should learn how to get France into a strong position or else what chance will I stand when I come to playing tougher nations?

Anyway, off I go to bed, and I'll give France another go in the morning

 

[hwoosh]

Your armies definitely don't need the help of military ideas early on. Didn't you notice that you were capable of stomping everyone around you with ease? Your advantages as France are precisely your massive base tax, which lets you support a huge army—if, as you say, you're having trouble staying in the black, you're doing something wrong—and the fact that you start with high army tradition, which is crucial.

 

[IndoEsia45]

I played France ironman one week ago and I encountered the same problem as you. I couldn't get enough warscore for all of the provinces. So what I did was to retake Normandy first and peace out with England. After few years I declared war on England again and this time they were allied with Burgundy. Okay England and Burgundy managed to actually overwhelm France initial stacks. My solution was to hire a lot of mercenaries, I believe it was almost 40 regiments of infantry and more or less a dozen of cavalry. I also took one loan. Surprisingly me economy holds out well and while warring with Burgundy my army managed to kill their king in the battle near Artois. The inheritance event fired and I got several Burgundian provinces for free with Burgundy inherited with other German states. With Burgundy out, I force England to transfer Calais to me and release Guyenne. Several years after Guyenne was no longer a problem because I managed to annex them diplomatically.

So I believe I already answered (1). (2) I don't have any ally. (3) I think you can set AI aggressiveness down in menu but still ironman game. (4) I didn't tamper with ideas until after I recovered all of the lost provinces. (5) Get Burgundy to be in war with you so that you can kill their army, and hopefully their king also.

 

[DukeDayve]

Without invading England (which is actually impossible unless you either build a fleet big enough to take on theirs OR just build a few cogs and try to get lucky ferrying them across the channel) then I don't think you can take them all at once.

Maybe if you besiege all 4 of their provinces bordering France and somehow get military access from Burgundy and siege Calais too and just let the war go on and on and on and on and on, use your monarch points to reduce your war exhaustion as you go... maybe rebels will begin to ravage England and eventually they'll just give up and let you have all 4. It's unlikely though.

I've played as France a few times and I can never get any more than 2 at once. After destroying their armies and sieging all their continental provinces the war score just gets stuck around 20-30% and there's nothing more I can do.

 

[zodium]

1: No, it is not possible to get all four provinces without invading the Isles, which is certainly more trouble than it's worth.

2: You can get almost anyone as an ally, even rivals(!), by farming Trust. You can farm Trust by using Enforce Peace for a country, which will give +2-4 trust with everyone who has discovered that country.

3: No.

4: Diplomatic, Offensive, Religious, Quality, whatever you won by now.

5: You can influence the inheritance event by winning a war with Burgundy. At 25%, 50% and 75% war score, the MTTH decreases (these stack).

6: Sigh.

 

[unmerged(463193)]

france is one of the few nations that can deal with coalitions. if france can't do it, i dont know what nation can (maybe brandenburg?)

 

[unmerged(88013)]

1.Is there any way to get all of England's French provinces (or at least the 4 that border France) off them in the initial war as France?

Not unless you're prepared for a long war, high exhaustion, and a bad reputation. And even then it requires luck in order to get your troops over to England's island.

The reality is you have plenty of time to reconquer your territory from the English. Two - three wars should do it. No need to rush it really.

2. How can I get some decent allies?

France doesn't need allies, it has a horde of Vassals, which in the long run are far better than unreliable treaties with capricious princes. Increase your tax base with temples and get more and bigger vassals. It's also the best way of expanding into the HRE.

Every other nation of note seems to have no trouble at all getting some really nice alliances going, yet the only decent countries who seem to be willing to be my allies are Aragon and Bohemia who are frankly both more trouble than they're worth. England and Burgundy always pick me as rivals and that's fine, that makes sense, and it's mutual. Castile and Austria always seem to pick me as rivals too, which doesn't make so much sense IMO. At this early stage I'm not competing with either of them for anything.

A successful France will always be rival to most big nations. Eventually you're going to want to take land from Aragon, Castile, and Austria anyway.

Is there some trick I'm missing or do France have some sort of diplo penalty or something?

It's your size, tax base, and army which causes countries to choose you as a rival. Thus, most big powers are going to dislike. That's a fact of being France. Or in fact anyone who gets too big.

3. Is there an "AI Aggressiveness" option hidden somewhere?

If you're really determined to ally someone, then the best countries are probably Hungry, Denmark or Muscovy / Russia. You can even ally Morocco or some other Berber due to the enemy of enemy effect against Castile. But as I've said, why bother allying them when you can subjugate states that will do your bidding without question, add to your force limit, give you taxes, and eventually can be integrated for minimal AE.

4. Ideas for ideas?

Exploration->Expansion->Trade. Colonise early. Secure those juicy african gold mines, and dominate new world trade. Expansion also complements your NI's (Diplomatic relations / Vassals). After those three I usually go with military ideas. The best being defensive, offensive, and quality. Defensive and Offensive best complement your NI's in my opinion.

5. Burgundian Inheritance
Is there anything I can do to have some influence over the Burgundian Inheritance firing? I recall it happening nearly every game just after release, but in 4 runs of about 100 years each as France, 1 of about 25 years as England and 1 of about 25 years as Austria in the last few days I've not seen it fire once. Did they take it out or something?

It's a random event, however, It's more likely to happen if Burgundy is in a perpetual state of war. I wouldn't worry about it personally. If it doesn't happen, just force Burgundy to release a lot of states, then proceed to vassalise / annex them.

6. What's up with coalitions?

So as I understand coalitions, and as I remember them from before, basically if I attack a member of the coalition, the whole coalition comes after me, right? Well yesterday England made a coalition and then war decc'd me with the 'coalition' casus belli. Question is, since when was that a CB, and in whose bizarre imagination is that even fair or balanced that 10+ countries can attack me with no negative consequences just because they feel like it?

If 10+ countries are all in a coalition against you, you're playing too aggressively. Slow it down. Take a maximum of one / two provinces in a war, get a relations advisor, and let your AE burn off for 5 years. I usually expand with a combination of diplomacy and conquest. If a coalition does form, the idea is not to continue on a rampage unless you want the world and his dog against you. It's done this way to limit the ridiculous blobbing of EU3.

 

[unmerged(88013)]

france is one of the few nations that can deal with coalitions. if france can't do it, i dont know what nation can (maybe brandenburg?)

In the early game, coalitions can take down any country. Mainly due to a dearth of manpower.

 

[unmerged(804580)]

Forget about allying your immediate neighbors. In fact, I don't think I ever managed to keep a stable alliance with someone with whom I share a border. One or two provinces border, fine. Long borders and still ally? Not going to happen. That rules out Castile, England, Burgundy and whoever inherits it. You might have some luck with Aragon if they antagonize Castile early in the game, but the game is brutal. Aragon has a province, Roussillon, which is a core province of your vassal Foix. You'd want Aragon to return that province to Foix before annexing it...

More distant allies could be much more helpful, especially if you're about to go all-out blow with the Austrian HRE. Bohemia and Poland early on, and try Russia and the Ottomans. But try to secure at least one long-term large alliance, either with the Ottomans or Russia. The longer the alliance lasts, the more likely it will last longer, and while new allies aren't likely to join distant wars, "allied for xx years" could go up to +100 and practically negate distant wars or even stability hits. A long-term alliance with the Ottomans made them march all the way to Denmark in my Ulm > Germany game.

That said, others who say "France needs no allies" does have a point. As long as you don't get into ridiculous coalitions, your diplomacy could be made of your subjects, rather than allies. I'd still advise for some decent allies in the early game though.

Some would say the allies in the game aren't reliable at all. Well, my Ulm to Germany had practically 90% of the HRE plus a few patches of lands to the north and east. My alliance with France is unbroken for 300 years. You just need to give them a right message: "I am not expanding into your direction and I don't want to share a long border with you" (I keep Burgundy as a buffer vassal) and most importantly, I keep calling France to arms every 5-10 years so they don't have time to think twice. Owning all of Scandinavia, Poland and Hungary in addition to Germany makes them feel threatened, and yes "threatened" attitude makes them less willing to join offensive wars, but if you kept them as allies long enough, up to +40 trust and +100 longtime alliance can negate that.

Always take initiative in offensive CtAs. Even if your allies hate each other, you can still call them and deplete them so they can't be at war with each other.

For example, I had France and Burgundy as allies in my Ethiopia game, and Burgundy was a really major force and perpetual enemy of France since.. the Burgundian inheritance fired backwards and Austria got PU'd and annexed by Burgundy. Anyways. I allied both, and Russia as well, and brought all three to crusade against the Ottomans every decade. I love how the Ottomans soaked in so much damage and still recovered (since I deliberately took no land).

I could just let them do whatever they wanted, but then they could have outgrown me, see me as a rival and turn hostile. This is not what you want.. You help them in defense, but you don't give them chance to go offence, and doing this every decade depleted even Russia that Kazan once broke Russia into halves.

That said, I haven't played France itself. But I'd imagine that's the kind of direction I'd go.

 

[unmerged(475475)]

Can't you diplovassalize Normandy after you release them?

 

[QzY]

you can ally austria or castile at the start of the game after you improved their relation by 1 tick. and they help ALOT when you decide to take burgundy lands (the upper ones so austria doesnt inherit them, except artois, rethel and picardie). i just ignore england pretty much the first war after killing their 9x2 stacks, because taking those provinces in that war gives you agressive expansion like a normal conquest CB would. you can give labourd to your vassal armagnac though.
if your goal is to expand as fast as possible i'd suggest dip idea's first, because you start with 5 vassals which you need to annex ASAP.

 

[Jankie]

If you want to conquer the British islands and don't want Scotland as an ally you could release Cornwall (Warscore: 15) and annex them, this is the easiest way to get your troups on their island.