10/10 AI

[Osmos123]

Great Britain allows France to land 41k troops and has no troops on their homeland to remove the French... This isn't the first time I've seen France invade successfully in this campaign because naval ai is incompetent.
I've really only noticed this behavior on the Denmark patch, although I played very little of the previous to be sure. Just tag switched and found that Great Britain's entire army is in South Africa on uncolonized land :/

 

[I'm gaming]

Their navy might blockade French colonies uselessly. Post this at bugreport with savefile, then QA will send it to @Gnivom to see it.

 

[Afonso de Albuquerque]

The AI of colonising nations does seem worse in the current patch. I often see them shipping the bulk of their army overseas for no discernible reason, forget about them there, and then proceed to get destroyed in Europe. Not just with England, I've seen France get wrecked by a much smaller Austria because they left a 40k stack in Floride standing still.

Also, the AI appears to love loading as many transports as they have with troops and bringing them to provinces they are colonising, even if there are only 500 natives (or none at all, I've seen Portugal lose Ceuta to Morocco because their 15k stack was taking a vacation in Cape Verde). They also love loading troops from islands, unloading them back in the same place, loading them again, and unloading them again, etc. which presumably takes a toll in manpower.

I wish that the AI was taught to always take Native Coexistence as their colonial policy and be forbidden from sending troops to growing colonies unless they are at war with someone in their vicinity.

Edit: Actually, I tagged switched around in one my current games and it seems the AI does always pick Native Coexistence, but I still see them moving huge armies to provinces being colonised anyway. Could it be the code was never updated to tell the AI this is no longer necessary since Native Policies were introduced? Maybe because Native Policies is DLC only?

 

[wielkiciensteam]

I have also noticed that GB stops worrying about protecting homeland, that was not the case before 1.19. There should be something done with English Channel to show it's importance to both sides, maybe special mechanics for this sea region?

 

[Gnivom]

Naval AI isn't as good as it should be. That'a a big task though, and will not be fixed easily. One thing That changed for 1.19 is the AI prioritizes using the fleets for transportation more than before, which might have caused this but was really necessary.

 

[Afonso de Albuquerque]

Naval AI isn't as good as it should be. That'a a big task though, and will not be fixed easily. One thing That changed for 1.19 is the AI prioritizes using the fleets for transportation more than before, which might have caused this but was really necessary.

How difficult would it be to make it so that the AI doesn't transport huge armies to tiny islands they are colonising? Especially if the Native Coexistence policy is enabled.

 

[Romaoplays]

How difficult would it be to make it so that the AI doesn't transport huge armies to tiny islands they are colonising? Especially if the Native Coexistence policy is enabled.

Probably very difficult, considering it's not on the game yet...

 

[Afonso de Albuquerque]

Probably very difficult, considering it's not on the game yet...

Well, that's why I asked... Did my question come off as mean-spirited? If so I didn't intend it, it was meant as an honest question.

 

[FB5813]

England/GB is doing a terrible job of defending the island regardless of the naval AI. I recently ferried over a poorly balanced 41k stack (mostly cannons) only for a perfectly fine 57k stack of theirs to be sitting motionless in Oxfordshire, led by a 2 star general (ie. better than mine). They could/should have stackwiped me with the -2 landing penalty. Instead I just slowly ferried over troops to the newly made Kent beachhead (they didn't attack even after landing) and sieged down their nation.

I'm guessing the abundance of armies I had on the mainland scared them out of attacking as the AI is so good avoiding battles these days, but this clearly needs fixing in the case of GBs magical island. Regrettably I didn't make a save file to post as bug. Next time.

 

[wingzero890]

Naval AI isn't as good as it should be. That'a a big task though, and will not be fixed easily. One thing That changed for 1.19 is the AI prioritizes using the fleets for transportation more than before, which might have caused this but was really necessary.

Thanks for your reply. I understand you're just doing your job, and I don't pretend to understand how the AI in this game is coded.

It's just really disappointing to see things like this happening in some form every patch, because people have had issues with naval AI and naval gameplay in general since this game released in 2013.

 

[Frogbait]

Naval AI isn't as good as it should be. That'a a big task though, and will not be fixed easily. One thing That changed for 1.19 is the AI prioritizes using the fleets for transportation more than before, which might have caused this but was really necessary.

I have a couple of questions if you don't mind, mainly relating to what the AI's issue is with the current state of the navy.

Is the AI struggling financially with maintaining a fleet or is the issue more of a struggle of the AI prioritization balance of its navy?

Is another issue attempting to have the AI deal with possibilities that the player would do for AI naval decisions? Basically is one issue attempting to deal with all of the relatively fringe cases that a player can do to abuse the naval AI?

This is a question, but about a possible solution. Obviously I don't know the coding behind it, but it may be useful for you from a player perspective. I do notice the AI tends to go overboard on their light ship fleets which I'm guessing is a prioritization issue and causes them to fill up their naval FL quite hard. With naval missions being included, I assume that a short term fix could be something like AI fleet building prioritizes -> transport fleet to half of army FL > first heavy/galley fleet to protect its main sea zone (fleet = meeting current naval combat width) > light fleet to dominate main trading node if current trade power < 50% in collection node > transport fleet for full land army > additional combat fleets > additional light fleets to dominate nodes that the nation has trading interests in. Offset this by adding AI limitations to their fleet composition by allotting certain %age of fleet compositions to each type of ship. Example would be like no more than 33% of the fleet to be light ships, no more than 34% heavy ships or galleys, no more than 33% transports. Have the first combat fleet be always set to hunt for enemy fleets with a focus on transports to the sea zone closest to their capital province. Have the determination between Galleys or Heavy ships to be based on their total income, year, and if their seazone closest to capital is an inland sea or not. And then offset that again by naval budget on what %age the nation is willing to spend on its navy in monthly expenses (excluding building cost) and again set it to %age based off of that. Example again would be like 60% combat, 20% transport, 20% light of say a naval budget of 30% monthly income.

So question for above is if that would even deal with the problem or be feasible for a short term fix? It's completely theoretical, so no idea on how it would work in practice.

 

[Yxklyx]

The AI has had a difficult time transporting armies ever since release. One possible solution is to get rid of transports entirely and let armies create their own "transports" on the spot when needed - at a cost. I think the latest Civ games do something like this.

 

[Romaoplays]

Well, that's why I asked... Did my question come off as mean-spirited? If so I didn't intend it, it was meant as an honest question.

It was clearly sarcastic...

 

[Sharples88]

The AI has had a difficult time transporting armies ever since release. One possible solution is to get rid of transports entirely and let armies create their own "transports" on the spot when needed - at a cost. I think the latest Civ games do something like this.

We all know how that turned out in Civ V, a terrible mess.

Edit: And I have 3,000 hours of Civ V. So I know how terrible it is.

 

[Afonso de Albuquerque]

It was clearly sarcastic...

It wasn't, and please don't accuse me of lying. When I saw @Gnivom's reply I marked it as helpful and asked a question as a follow up to the issue I had raised earlier in the thread. Again, if my wording was poor, I apologise.

I have a couple of questions if you don't mind, mainly relating to what the AI's issue is with the current state of the navy.

Is the AI struggling financially with maintaining a fleet or is the issue more of a struggle of the AI prioritization balance of its navy?

Is another issue attempting to have the AI deal with possibilities that the player would do for AI naval decisions? Basically is one issue attempting to deal with all of the relatively fringe cases that a player can do to abuse the naval AI?

This is a question, but about a possible solution. Obviously I don't know the coding behind it, but it may be useful for you from a player perspective. I do notice the AI tends to go overboard on their light ship fleets which I'm guessing is a prioritization issue and causes them to fill up their naval FL quite hard. With naval missions being included, I assume that a short term fix could be something like AI fleet building prioritizes -> transport fleet to half of army FL > first heavy/galley fleet to protect its main sea zone (fleet = meeting current naval combat width) > light fleet to dominate main trading node if current trade power < 50% in collection node > transport fleet for full land army > additional combat fleets > additional light fleets to dominate nodes that the nation has trading interests in. Offset this by adding AI limitations to their fleet composition by allotting certain %age of fleet compositions to each type of ship. Example would be like no more than 33% of the fleet to be light ships, no more than 34% heavy ships or galleys, no more than 33% transports. Have the first combat fleet be always set to hunt for enemy fleets with a focus on transports to the sea zone closest to their capital province. Have the determination between Galleys or Heavy ships to be based on their total income, year, and if their seazone closest to capital is an inland sea or not. And then offset that again by naval budget on what %age the nation is willing to spend on its navy in monthly expenses (excluding building cost) and again set it to %age based off of that. Example again would be like 60% combat, 20% transport, 20% light of say a naval budget of 30% monthly income.

So question for above is if that would even deal with the problem or be feasible for a short term fix? It's completely theoretical, so no idea on how it would work in practice.

I admit I haven't looked in detail, but is the composition of the AI navies really a major issue? Usually when I fight with them they don't seem to be lacking in heavies and have sufficient transports for the war. The problem I find is that they are often out of position, with their armies transported far away from the action and the heavies failing to intercept enemy landings.

 

[Mirehn]

Just some to mull over: maybe there can be a specific transport force limit that is based on the your army force limit and naval force limit?

The above is a thought piece, nothing more.

 

[Philadelphus]

Eh, this isn't really new to 1.19. In my 1.17 First Come, First Serve run England lost most of its southern half to France. I actually sniped London and another province from the French.

As long as it isn't happening a majority of the time I'm pretty ok with it; it brings some dynamism to the islands where otherwise most games are "England eats Scotland and Ireland, then sits around not being seriously threatened or doing much of anything at all for two centuries."

 

[KubiG37]

I don't think it has anything to do with 1.19 patch, it has always been like that (England AI allowing thousands of enemy troops to land into their country, while their entire royal navy is in Carribean, blocking 1k of French troops on a desolate island).

Problem is that there are no "nation specific" AIs, that would behave differently from regular countries.
Like:
England should be using superior navy at all times to deny any naval invasion at all costs, while keeping smaller army to compensate the costs,
or for example Russia using it's huge country, severe winters and defensive strategy to "drain" enemy manpower to win a war. Instead they are usually the first country to loose ALL the manpower, because they keep walking their 100k stacks in 1/1/1 severe winter provinces of their own.
or Poland/Lithuania building armies with a lot of cavalry to utilise huge bonuses they have as a nation (Instead, now I often even see them having 0 cavalry!!!)

 

[grommile]

The AI has had a difficult time transporting armies ever since release. One possible solution is to get rid of transports entirely and let armies create their own "transports" on the spot when needed - at a cost. I think the latest Civ games do something like this.

Crusader Kings did that.

You will notice that Crusader Kings II doesn't.