1 ss div LAH and 2 ss div Das Reich

[Meridar]

I would like to know the dev. reasons for not having 1 ss div Leibstandarte der AH an the 2 ss div Das Reich in the game?

1 ss div saw action on day one, aka 6 june, as some of their recon elements made contact with the enemy, and they got bombed by the allies prior to june 6, and they where heavily deployed in normande during the following days of operation overlord, working close with th 12 ss. and the Pz Lehr divs.
So from my point of view the 1 ss div should have been added, and im failing to se any excuses as to why they havent been added? I fail to believe it having something to do with their name referring to AH or due to the fact that they committed quite a few few attrocities during the war, because if that is the case then plz remove the 12 ss Div, also called the Hitlerjugend divison (hint look at name and how they treated allied POW).

And the argument that they are similar to other ss div just doesn't hold water, they were an elite fighting group all with experience from prior theater of wars i ww2.

I'll admit to understanding perhaps, that the 2 ss isnt in the game from the start, they deployed very slowly to Normandy from southern france and arrived very late to do any useable fighting to prevent the landings, and became bogged down in stalling the allies instead, so for them to be released in a DLC will make sense, but then they did fight in Normnady and did take heavy casualties and inflicted them btw.

 

[Thonar]

they were an elite fighting group

Nope, they weren't.

 

[eMeM]

They found enough interesting Panzer divisions and wanted to avoid the most hardcore war criminals whenever possible.

 

[Graphic]

MadMat basically said they included SS divisions when it made sense: 12. SS was the closest to the generic panzer division TO&E and 17. SS was the only (ostensibly but not really) mechanized infantry division.

Having a third or half the German divisions be SS wouldn't serve any purpose when there's nothing notable about most of them except how much they sucked and how many mass murders they committed; except to provide fapping material to weirdos.

 

[frout]

I support the choice of the devs.
The 12 SS div is enough.

 

[Steeperman]

I agree with the commentaries. There is absoluely no need for these hardcore- Nazi divisions to be in the game, which are known for their massacers and brutality against captured soldiers and civlians.

 

[pras]

Would these divisions provide anything new and fresh to the game except the emblem? If not then what is the point of adding them?

On the other hand saying it shouldn't be in because they did more war atrocities than others sounds like: "Divisions that shot only 5 Juden or less per soldier are permitted."
Which to be honest... is a rather appalling way of reasoning.
So if they shot only 3 Juden per soldier it is OK in your books?

It is a WW2 game with "realistic" divisions. ... And it just happens to be that the biggest monsters had the best toys. There is no way around it. Whole Axis side shouldn't be in the game then, SD should be taken down and we should be refunded our money. Why? Because Germans had a state approved and promoted doctrine on massacring civilians. It is not like some US army soldiers having a grudge and shooting couple of German POW on their own.

I really wonder how many of you play Attila Total war and played Mongols. If you do... how dare you, considering what Mongols did in Baghdad in 1258.

 

[RoyalColor]

Besides what was already said above, modding tools will let you rename divisional names and visuals, so I am pretty sure, that rather sooner than later, somebody will do both of these.

 

[Graphic]

On the other hand saying it shouldn't be in because they did more war atrocities than others sounds like: "Divisions that shot only 5 Juden or less per soldier are permitted."
Which to be honest... is a rather appalling way of reasoning.
So if they shot only 3 Juden per soldier it is OK in your books?

You're over analyzing it more than we are. I have zero issue with SS divisions being in the game when relevant. Ones that aren't relevant shouldn't be in the game, neither should heer divisions that are irrelevant and uninteresting. Yet no one's asking for random boring heer divisions to be in the game. They're asking for SS divisions to be in the game because they're SS divisions. That's tasteless, when the only possible merit for including irrelevant SS divisions is their ghastly reputation and mystique.

 

[Sleight of Hand]

I don't want more SS divisions simply for the sake of it. I think the devs have chosen a great mix of divisions, and so far they seem interesting and varied.

 

[Ownage]

I would like to know the dev. reasons for not having 1 ss div Leibstandarte der AH an the 2 ss div Das Reich in the game?

1 ss div saw action on day one, aka 6 june, as some of their recon elements made contact with the enemy, and they got bombed by the allies prior to june 6, and they where heavily deployed in normande during the following days of operation overlord, working close with th 12 ss. and the Pz Lehr divs.
So from my point of view the 1 ss div should have been added, and im failing to se any excuses as to why they havent been added? I fail to believe it having something to do with their name referring to AH or due to the fact that they committed quite a few few attrocities during the war, because if that is the case then plz remove the 12 ss Div, also called the Hitlerjugend divison (hint look at name and how they treated allied POW).

And the argument that they are similar to other ss div just doesn't hold water, they were an elite fighting group all with experience from prior theater of wars i ww2.

I'll admit to understanding perhaps, that the 2 ss isnt in the game from the start, they deployed very slowly to Normandy from southern france and arrived very late to do any useable fighting to prevent the landings, and became bogged down in stalling the allies instead, so for them to be released in a DLC will make sense, but then they did fight in Normnady and did take heavy casualties and inflicted them btw.

I feel these divisions both fit into the "DLC Division" tree. If they plan on making divisional DLC then those, 1st armored and 1st Infantry Division and a few more fit into division packs.

 

[frout]

SD 44 is a game, a war game in the context of WWII whose goal is to defeat the opponents' troops.

But this does not mean that we do not have a duty of remembrance and that a game does not have a moral message to deliver.
1 and 2 SS divisions were not good at war. They were just strong against weak victims (children, women, unarmed men, prisoners). They were, above all, war criminals. We don't need them in game.

 

[Fussel]

Nope, they weren't.

So you might want to argue that the LSSAH was not "elite" enough but there is probably no denying that they are one of if not the most experienced division of the war at the time being active since the beginning and fighting in almost all theatres (western front, eastern front, Italy, Balkan, Greece etc.). They were often used on the most dangerous places at the front and achieving victories against all odds (for example counterattack on Charkow). Show me one allied division we have in the game with a resume like that.

 

[fightinheckfish]

So you might want to argue that the LSSAH was not "elite" enough but there is probably no denying that they are one of if not the most experienced division of the war at the time being active since the beginning and fighting in almost all theatres (western front, eastern front, Italy, Balkan, Greece etc.). They were often used on the most dangerous places at the front and achieving victories against all odds (for example counterattack on Charkow). Show me one allied division we have in the game with a resume like that.

1. LSSAH has a great resume of warcrimes.

2. There's plenty of Divisions in the game that have great battle histories. Like 2nd French armored went 12:1 against Panthers. 2 ID despite being heavily mauled in earlier fighting basically ripped the heart out of several Nazi divisions at the Bulge despite being heavily out numbered and out gunned.

Basically the SS as super awesome dudes thing is largely a myth told by the Nazis. The fact we still slavishly repeat it is less a sign of the actual skill of the SS (who even by Heer standards were often reckless amateurs) and more a sign of our willingness to swallow sexy sounding Nazi propaganda decades after the Allies/Soviets demonstrated how to win wars (something I am obligated to point out the Nazis were pretty bad at).

 

[Thonar]

So you might want to argue that the LSSAH was not "elite" enough but there is probably no denying that they are one of if not the most experienced division of the war at the time being active since the beginning and fighting in almost all theatres (western front, eastern front, Italy, Balkan, Greece etc.). They were often used on the most dangerous places at the front and achieving victories against all odds (for example counterattack on Charkow). Show me one allied division we have in the game with a resume like that.

LSSAH is and was never an "Elite"-Formation, it wasn't better or worse than other Panzer-Divisions in a way that it could be called "Elite". I do not compare them to the allied, why should I? I compare them to their peers, the Wehrmacht units. How about comparing them to the 116th in Normandy? They kept the Falaise pocket open with far less quality in material.
And of all those battles, how many veterans do you think have survived it into Normandy? LSSAH was nearly a new division as it fought in Normandy after refitting... and its higher Leaders and partly even the NCO-corps never received a training comparable to the Heer.

 

[Fussel]

LSSAH is and was never an "Elite"-Formation

I guess men like Peiper and Wittmann were just created by "Nazi-Propaganda" and kill claims are lies anyway.

 

[Meridar]

You're over analyzing it more than we are. I have zero issue with SS divisions being in the game when relevant. Ones that aren't relevant shouldn't be in the game, neither should heer divisions that are irrelevant and uninteresting. Yet no one's asking for random boring heer divisions to be in the game. They're asking for SS divisions to be in the game because they're SS divisions. That's tasteless, when the only possible merit for including irrelevant SS divisions is their ghastly reputation and mystique.

You make it sound like im a Nazi simpathiser, which im not. And to think i want them in the game because they are simply SS divs. is just plain stupidity, you could put any heer div in the game if they were present in Normandy at the given time, i just like like it if the games are historical correct and yes american divs are also missing i am aware of that and should have asked about them as well.

 

[Thonar]

I guess men like Peiper and Wittmann were just created by "Nazi-Propaganda" and kill claims are lies anyway.

Ohh, you mean Poster-Boy Wittmann? A good tank-commander, a bad platoon-leader and an even worse company-commander.
And the losses LSSAH received was nearly constantly above average. HIAG really did a great job in promoting Peiper and LSSAH after the war...

 

[Meridar]

Gonna say this first. As it will be drowned out by everything else. War isn't pretty. There are no rules, we say we agree to guidelines. But that's something we tell ourselves.

The allies are also guilty of war crimes but we didn't lose the war. Waffen S.S. units, while being ideologically aligned with the nazi ethos were not camp thugs. Many regular army soldiers were effectively pressed
Into SS units later in the war. There's good book out there called "Steel Inferno: 1st SS Panzer Corps in Normandy" a lot of the SS units did perform quite well.

Having said that, regular army units also performed well. And because many SS divisions are similar I don't see the need to have all of them at this point in the games life.

I'm Canadian, and I want to see
more Canadian formations in game. I'm also a soldier, and I can respect and honour the acts of valour on both sides of the battlefield. But it doesn't stop me from playing 12th SS. If there's any division I should be strictly opposed to it would be them. But it doesn't bother me.

Well spoken

 

[Steeperman]

You make it sound like im a Nazi simpathiser, which im not. And to think i want them in the game because they are simply SS divs. is just plain stupidity, you could put any heer div in the game if they were present in Normandy at the given time, i just like like it if the games are historical correct and yes american divs are also missing i am aware of that and should have asked about them as well.

Why don't you want to have some other divisions in the game? Why does it have to be two SS Divisions, that are known for their massacres and fanatism? We already have two SS divisions in the game. Why implementing two others, especially when looking at their historical backround? There are plenty of other german divisions, you could have proposed, but you didn't. You should ask yourselve, why you have opened this thread, when you don't want to be insta- critcised and you are not an Nazi simpathiser.