1 policy per 10 Years ? It's BS!

[unmerged(485)]

Judging from the "Start the game at any date in history" thingy I'd say that the years will have all of the days in them. Especially since the day of the week is listed in the date display.

 

[unmerged(25273)]

policy change should work quicker than in EU2

Selim, your language is far too strong for my taste: BS is just not on!
I also believe policy change should be allowed much more frequently than one point every 10 years, especially if country events are still in place that allow 6 points or so in one go in some cases. (In EU2 I freely used the Robespierre cheat allowing 1 point change at -1 stability cost anytime.)
I agree with Sir Grotius that a bureaucracy/political tradition system could be included to allow quicker changes without greater penalty in stability.
In my opinion policy changes should be possible much quicker but with an increasing stabilty cost, which again is lowered by the political tradition.

 

[unmerged(6147)]

If you were to allow players to move sliders before 10 years have passed and to pay with stab, well to start with you would then need to stop people from being able to make this when they already are at stab -3, else they would achieve their ideal slider positions for the early game on January 1st 1419. But that is not enough. Early on in the game the monarch bonus typically covers stab very fast.

I as well as anyone else am quite frustrated by having to wait 10 years for the next move. But this makes it a real challenge to master them and a real joy when you get an event that enables you to make a nice slider move. Early on the petition for redress is a blessed event .

 

[mesut]

Keep the 10 year rule - free movement of sliders is absurd and takes away the challange and fun of the game. Paying with stability doesn't work, i mean beeing centralized is not the decision of a single leader, but the development of a whole educated administration - it takes time!

Regards
Mesut

Edit: If it would be that easy in reality, then i would like to see the US forming into a decentralized, full-conscript army, socialist society next year.

 

[unmerged(53986)]

Edit: If it would be that easy in reality, then i would like to see the US forming into a decentralized, full-conscript army, socialist society next year.

Dove, planned, isolationist, conscript and even more authoritarian..

 

[EvilSanta]

Dove, planned, isolationist, conscript and even more authoritarian..

USA isolationist my butt!


Iraq war was far from intervening in Iraqs policies.So was Afghanistan.

 

[Charle_88]

USA isolationist my butt!


Iraq war was far from intervening in Iraqs policies.So was Afghanistan.

If you notice he said Dove, planned and conscript as well. All things that are clearly not part of the modern USA (Dove perhaps, that is arguable I suppose). He tried to explain how to make the slider changes someone talked about above, but in HoI2-terms.

And now all the funny dissappeared from it. =(

 

[trajan]

I as well as anyone else am quite frustrated by having to wait 10 years for the next move. But this makes it a real challenge to master them and a real joy when you get an event that enables you to make a nice slider move. Early on the petition for redress is a blessed event .

IMHO, the best improvement that could be made slider wise would be the ability to look at the settings when a slider changing event fires. I always forget which direction is which and end up picking the wrong one. There's no joy in Mudville when I pick the wrong way after I just changed one 6 months ago.

 

[Grosshaus]

Modern politics have nothing to do with EU3, better try Off-Topic forum instead.

 

[Gebhard Blucher]

I'll be happy if the sliders are decently balanced. In EU2 it was a no-brainer to go Centralization, and nearly so Offensive and Aristocracy. Some of the balancing improvements they made in the later EU2 patches made the slider situation a bit better, so hopefully they will continue in that direction.

 

[unmerged(20077)]

I'd welcome much more finely graded sliders, say 0-100 instead of 0-10. Instead of moving a slider in one single "jolt" you might announce a new policy which slowly moves the slider over time in one direction or the other, perhaps with the monarch's Admin (or EU3 equivalent) determining how fast it actually moves. Perhaps certain monarchs might be attached to certain policies, and the slider moves more slowly if you try and move it the wrong way...

 

[Grosshaus]

I'd welcome much more finely graded sliders, say 0-100 instead of 0-10. Instead of moving a slider in one single "jolt" you might announce a new policy which slowly moves the slider over time in one direction or the other, perhaps with the monarch's Admin (or EU3 equivalent) determining how fast it actually moves. Perhaps certain monarchs might be attached to certain policies, and the slider moves more slowly if you try and move it the wrong way...

Have you played the game Democracy? It had such a slider system.

 

[Gwalcmai]

I'll be happy if the sliders are decently balanced. In EU2 it was a no-brainer to go Centralization, and nearly so Offensive and Aristocracy. Some of the balancing improvements they made in the later EU2 patches made the slider situation a bit better, so hopefully they will continue in that direction.

The sliders don't necessarily have to be balanced. You can have a slider have an ideal position but have events consistently moving you away from that position.

 

[Etriel]

The sliders represent not only how the government works, but also how society in a given country works. It would be kind of strange if you could change stuff like that very fast.
I don't like the idea of stab hits instead of the 10 year wait. Even though reforms usually give unstability, that doesn't mean that stability is the only thing you need to make a reform work. Usually reforms work the best if you have hit an all time low in a given area, or a ruler uses money and political power on a given thing. Just about every single reform made, will have people for, against and people who just don't care.
What i would really like to see is something where you can pay money and then get some additional effects like rr and stuff like that. Then, when a certain time has passed, an effect will kick in.
Lots of stuff to consider with something like this though.
A simple version is one thing at a time and it works every time.
A bit more advanced, and a lot more work for paradox is, if you are allowed to try and improve several areas at once and then the chance that the effect will actually work, will be lowered for all the ongoing events.

 

[Gebhard Blucher]

The sliders represent not only how the government works, but also how society in a given country works. It would be kind of strange if you could change stuff like that very fast.
I don't like the idea of stab hits instead of the 10 year wait. Even though reforms usually give unstability, that doesn't mean that stability is the only thing you need to make a reform work. Usually reforms work the best if you have hit an all time low in a given area, or a ruler uses money and political power on a given thing. Just about every single reform made, will have people for, against and people who just don't care.
What i would really like to see is something where you can pay money and then get some additional effects like rr and stuff like that. Then, when a certain time has passed, an effect will kick in.
Lots of stuff to consider with something like this though.
A simple version is one thing at a time and it works every time.
A bit more advanced, and a lot more work for paradox is, if you are allowed to try and improve several areas at once and then the chance that the effect will actually work, will be lowered for all the ongoing events.

Well, I think one of the best arguments for radical changes in DP slider settings (and other things) were the historical events in EU2. For instance, just one event from England:

    action_c ={     #Lancaster Kings make most important policies#
        name = "ACTIONNAME3002C"
        command = { type = sleepevent which = 3003 }
        command = { type = sleepevent which = 3751 }
        command = { type = domestic which = ARISTOCRACY value = 2 }
        command = { type = domestic which = SERFDOM value = 2 }
        command = { type = domestic which = CENTRALIZATION value = -2 }
        command = { type = domestic which = LAND value = -2 }
        command = { type = stability value = -2 }
        command = { type = province_revoltrisk which = 240 value = 2 }
        command = { type = provincetax which = 240 value = -2 }
        command = { type = province_revoltrisk which = 241 value = 2 }
        command = { type = provincetax which = 241 value = -2 }
        command = { type = province_revoltrisk which = 242 value = 2 }
        command = { type = provincetax which = 242 value = -2 }
        command = { type = province_revoltrisk which = 243 value = 2 }
        command = { type = provincetax which = 243 value = -2 }
        command = { type = province_revoltrisk which = 244 value = 2 }
        command = { type = provincetax which = 244 value = -2 }
        command = { type = province_revoltrisk which = 245 value = 2 }
        command = { type = provincetax which = 245 value = -2 }
        command = { type = province_revoltrisk which = 246 value = 2 }
        command = { type = provincetax which = 246 value = -2 }
        command = { type = province_revoltrisk which = 247 value = 2 }
        command = { type = provincetax which = 247 value = -2 }
        command = { type = province_revoltrisk which = 248 value = 2 }
        command = { type = provincetax which = 248 value = -2 }
        command = { type = province_revoltrisk which = 249 value = 2 }
        command = { type = provincetax which = 249 value = -2 }
        command = { type = province_revoltrisk which = 250 value = 2 }
        command = { type = provincetax which = 250 value = -2 }
    }

Apparently a change like that is considered possible since the event exists. So. Why do you have to wait around for an event to make those changes? Answer: the EU2 game engine can't handle it, so clumsy ham-fisted events like that have to do. Nothing against the event-writers, or the events themselves, mind you. They are fun events. The problem, imo, is when you play a country that doesn't have any events and/or when your country is in a situation where the existing events don't make any sense. After the first few years, that second case is almost always unless you are going out of your way to play "historically" and the AI countries are obliging enough to do the same.

If the game can't handle that kind of radical change, then it shouldn't be posible at all, just not for the unlucky countries without such events.

The sliders don't necessarily have to be balanced. You can have a slider have an ideal position but have events consistently moving you away from that position.

You are right. I just happen to think random events are a poor way of "balancing" the sliders. Regarding centralization, if I'm moderately lucky (or just reload) I never have to experience the decentralization events, or if I'm small/rich enough the stability penalties are meaningless.

I'd much rather just see the slider positions in balance.

 

[Etriel]

The way i see it, historical events affect the sliders way more than anything else. They can do that without messing up the game, because this is a game that has countries that try to behave historically and these events help shape the country so it looks and behaves more like it should.
EU2 has never been a fair game, where everybody had the same options. Sliders starts diferently, tech groups, explorer events, number of provinces and monarcs all makes this a very unfair game.
It is probably just diferent ways of looking at the game, but even though i always use the sliders, i think it would feel kind of strange to be able to create changes early in the game, that i want to stick for the entire game. When we are talking about the sliders, i think it is important to remember what they actually symbolises. Stuff like how naval land orientated or how narrowminded your country is, isn't stuff that changes just like that. That is, it doens't change like that, unless something very special happens, thus the historical events. One of the things i like best about the game, is that i get to play a country that has it's role to play in a historical context, and that i can then change it's destiny.

 

[Lambert Simnel]

To me sliding a slider doesn't feel like manipulating a countries policies. I would prefer it if you had a list of events (the exact list dependant on current policies, religion, tech level, stability...) that you could fire on demand that each had multiple effects. For example:

Employ middle-class as royal officials (-1 aristocracy, +1 centralization, -2 stability; selectable for stability 3, aristocracy 6-8 & centralization 5-10)
Restore disinherited nobles (+2 stability, +1 aristocracy, -1 tax revenue in 2 provinces; selectable for aristocracy 5-9, stability -1 or higher)
Disband unreliable units (+1 stability, -10000 troops, +1 quality, 25% chance of revolt; only selectable at negative stability)
Sell off royal lands ( +100d, -1 centralization, -1 tax revenue in 4 provinces)
Allow substitutes to serve in noble cavalry(-1 aristocracy, -1 quality; selectable for arisocracy 9+, quality 8+)

In EU2 these types of decisions were modelled as random events, but it annoyed me that I couldn't make these decisions when I wanted to

 

[unmerged(485)]

To me sliding a slider doesn't feel like manipulating a countries policies. I would prefer it if you had a list of events (the exact list dependant on current policies, religion, tech level, stability...) that you could fire on demand that each had multiple effects. For example:

Employ middle-class as royal officials (-1 aristocracy, +1 centralization, -2 stability; selectable for stability 3, aristocracy 6-8 & centralization 5-10)
Restore disinherited nobles (+2 stability, +1 aristocracy, -1 tax revenue in 2 provinces; selectable for aristocracy 5-9, stability -1 or higher)
Disband unreliable units (+1 stability, -10000 troops, +1 quality, 25% chance of revolt; only selectable at negative stability)
Sell off royal lands ( +100d, -1 centralization, -1 tax revenue in 4 provinces)
Allow substitutes to serve in noble cavalry(-1 aristocracy, -1 quality; selectable for arisocracy 9+, quality 8+)

In EU2 these types of decisions were modelled as random events, but it annoyed me that I couldn't make these decisions when I wanted to

How many times could you invoke these events? Once you have employed the middle class as royal officials then what? You can't employ them again because they are already employed.

 

[joak]

The sliders don't necessarily have to be balanced. You can have a slider have an ideal position but have events consistently moving you away from that position.

Good point, I think it sometimes gets lost. Centralized states were generally stronger in the EU period, so obviously "centralized" should be the way everyone wants to go. It should just cost you to get there.

To me sliding a slider doesn't feel like manipulating a countries policies. I would prefer it if you had a list of events (the exact list dependant on current policies, religion, tech level, stability...) that you could fire on demand that each had multiple effects. For example:

Employ middle-class as royal officials (etc.)

That would make a changing the sliders a lot more colorful. Apropos Sonny's comment, you could easily phrase the events to make it obvious it wasn't a one time thing, such as "Move administrative duties from aristocrats to cronies of the king" or some such.

I personally don't find the "once a decade" rule too burdensome--rapid changes usually led to disaster for a king, except when he was given an excuse by rebellion or conspiracy (aka a historical event). But doing an event-like system could allow you do it more often, at ever greater costs (stab hits, revolts, lower king stats, bad random events) and reset everything back to default if the king 'blinked'.

 

[George LeS]

While I don't say the current slider system is ideal, I don't think it's that bad, as a game mechanic. IMO, the biggest objections/alternatives are:

1. The inability to review current settings when events pop up. Especially as I look for OFF 8 (not 10), as I like the morale, but do not want to lose siege (shock is a poor substitute).

2. The 10-year cycle does lead to gamey play. One of the few situations I'll invest in Stab is, sometimes, in the year 8, when I know my stab hit is coming soon (but only if the stab level warrents it).

3. It doesn't, as has been pointed out, exactly reflect the penalties as I'd like it to. E.g., if you switch your military policy -- & especially if you reverse direction from previous changes -- it might be better to take a (temporary, but not too short) morale hit. Similarly, changes in Merc/FT might entail a change in the #, cost, & effectiveness of merchants. Cent/Decent might raise RR. Note that, in these cases, I am talking about a temporary change, like the morale losses you get for bankruptcy, or not paying full support; they would be independent of the permanent morale (or whatever) changes ensuing from your policy choice.

4. On a related note, I'd really like to see some way of entering long-term, not single click, goals, instead of single-clicks. So you'd just move the slider to, say, OFF 8, CEN 10, etc. Of course, you wouldn't get those effects; you'd just be setting the goals; indefinitely. The question of how fast the changes occur, might be a function of how many sliders are changing, & how much. Say, each policy might effectively move in the targeted direction, every year, with the amount varying with the players choices of priority. (This is really analogous to the way investment sliders work). If you push too fast, you get more disruption. Changing your long-term goals, now that would be really disruptive.

Still, other than the 1st, I'm not sure they'd be all that much better to do things as listed above. (One thing I noticed: one of the advisors in the screenshots had a factor of Stab + 8. That must mean that the Stab scale will be a lot more than the current +/- 6.)