If i want to play it like that i can get an extreme high result but not playable at all as your lacking airforce tanks etc and you could game the result like hell.
1.9 German Economy Benchmark Thread
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If i want to play it like that i can get an extreme high result but not playable at all as your lacking airforce tanks etc and you could game the result like hell.
Seems the number is wrong. I get 2.371.300 for that... ?
I added the savegame above to my Germany Run V3 - MEME
Oh yes shit had a typo in my calculator... 89 not 98...
Thanks for the savegame.
Really you are only building guns and not importing anything staying free trade all time.
Ok now i know why you have more ;-)
I have a normal economy with like 20 civs importing stuff if you look into my savegame
Builded airforce tanks and all the good stuff.
Ok now i know why you have more ;-)
I have a normal economy with like 20 civs importing stuff if you look into my savegame
Builded airforce tanks and all the good stuff.
I see the issue, but I'd like to keep this as simple and as focused on economy as possible.
Adding a score for produced equipment has the following disadvantages:
- If it's generic like "Just produce 1936 Guns", then the runs are useless. The user should be able to continue the run after 1.6.1939 if he wants
- If it's not generic it's very hard to measure it in a fair way.
- I think it's enough if the users add the info, whether they are think the runs are a "good 1939 Germany" or just an maximisation of economy at cost of other things. (Like my Germany Run V3)
- Optimized production of needed equipment and optimization of research are a science for themself and I don't want to overload this with it.
- You can easily tell. If someone just produced CIVs he will not have a lot equipment.
- I think the even bigger issue than equipment is research. If you just produce 1936 Guns until 1936 and then start with upgraded Medium3s and Fighter2s you are still VERY strong. But if you dont research tanks or planes because of economy, you are not.
But I will look at the other thread an if it works out, I can add it later on. Still keep the savegames for the test runs.
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Really you are only building guns and not importing anything staying free trade all time.
Ok now i know why you have more ;-)
I have a normal economy with like 20 civs importing stuff if you look into my savegame
Hehe...
That's why I call it Meme run. I also don't research anything that is not economy to save the clicks...
I think the early Anschluss and the Early Fate of Czechoslovakia are also quite a boost.
But you are not doing that in a normal game.
I will work on a "normal" Run V4 with the insights won so far.
This run will include tanks, land doctrines, planes, all needed research, agents, going back from free trade ...
Hope I can get a score around 2.200.000.
Your meme run just has ~4 civs build more then my normal run that you can use and i was importing stuff for years all time some month with 20 civs plus and returning from free trade to export focus, you know who won this ;-)
So far you have won, but I still can use both Industry research bonuses on Construction 2 and 3.
I think we still have to work out if early Anschluss (as 2nd focus) is worth it economically and how much the difference is.
And if it's better to also rush Sudetenland and Fate or use Schacht as Advisor.
I think we still have to work out if early Anschluss (as 2nd focus) is worth it economically and how much the difference is.
And if it's better to also rush Sudetenland and Fate or use Schacht as Advisor.
Had a save from August 38 where i did stop importing with 7 civs already and let it run further
98 mils
147 civs
15 docks
5 synth
2.461.700 got it ;-)
98 mils
147 civs
15 docks
5 synth
2.461.700 got it ;-)
So far you have won, but I still can use both Industry research bonuses on Construction 2 and 3.
I think we still have to work out if early Anschluss (as 2nd focus) is worth it economically and how much the difference is.
And if it's better to also rush Sudetenland and Fate or use Schacht as Advisor.
One of the benefits of an early Anschluss, aside from the factories, is that it boosts your war support. This means you can shift to war economy very early on.
I know my solution is far from perfect, but it's the best way I can figure to account the amount of IC produced by MIC, without a complex calculation. At some point you need to start to produce some military equipment to win. For tests purpose, limiting the equipment produced to one single equipment available at day 1 is simple for everybody to reproduce and better than totally ignoring MIC production during 36-39
I think you really need to give collaboration governments a lot of weight as well. You want to hit both Poland and France twice, and unless you're ok on delaying the war, that means you need to have your intelligence agency up and running with 2 spies (preferably 3) by late '38-which means starting the work on the intelligence agency/upgrades no later than May 1938.
I just did a run where on July 1 I had:
140 Civs
90 Mils
21 Dockyards (I actually built these before the mils, so I'll have 4 new battlecruisers ready in Feb 1940 to finish off the royal navy and launch sealion)
3 REFS with 6 more due to finish before the war starts.
But I had also done 2 collaboration governments in Poland, and my second one in France was due to finish on Dec 1. Had to delay the Fall of France until then but it was worth the 80 starting collaboration with France. I was also super cheesy and snuck 24 cheapo divisions into Italian Africa that I template swapped to infantry and panzers once France fell to help Italy in N Africa.
I just did a run where on July 1 I had:
140 Civs
90 Mils
21 Dockyards (I actually built these before the mils, so I'll have 4 new battlecruisers ready in Feb 1940 to finish off the royal navy and launch sealion)
3 REFS with 6 more due to finish before the war starts.
But I had also done 2 collaboration governments in Poland, and my second one in France was due to finish on Dec 1. Had to delay the Fall of France until then but it was worth the 80 starting collaboration with France. I was also super cheesy and snuck 24 cheapo divisions into Italian Africa that I template swapped to infantry and panzers once France fell to help Italy in N Africa.
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I pointed out serveral times in this thread that "collaboration govenment" mission are absolutely worth it.
E.g. here: https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...conomy-benchmark-thread.1387471/post-26540613
You dont lose a lot of economy even if you start with the agency in January 1936.
That gives:
01.07.1939: (one month late)
Owned CIVs = 140
MILs = 90
Docks = 21
REFs = 3
Collaborations = 2 (2x POL)
Benchmark = 2.337.900
Very nice!
How did you do it? Early Anschluss?
Was your run similiar to one of the 3 runs I described in detail? (V1, V2 or V3, see Threadmarks)
I would change that into 'especially'.
Building agency upgrades cost a fixed number of CiC, for a fixed number of days. It's not like a normal factory that costs a total of CiC points, which is filled up over time by the construction output your CiC provides. The latter benefits from industry tech, while the agency construction does not. Only appointing the spy minister makes construction of agency upgrades go faster (and thus less CiC lost towards factory construction).
In short, losing 5 CiC for 30 days costs you less construction lost for normal factories in 1936 that it costs in 1939 when you have several construction techs researched.
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Are you sure that spending CIVs early is better due to building CIVs is faster later because of modiefiers like Construction1, 2, 3?
And not spending CIVs later is better, due to snowballing of early built CIVs?
How much snowballing do you think is going on in early 1936?
To get your spies up and running, you need to build the agency, and have 5 upgrades (for the extra spy). That's 6 months worth of 5CiC you're not using to construct another CiC. Those 5 CiC is basically you're entire second CiC line (using germany as an example here). When left to it's own devices, that second line can barely construct half of a new CiC in that time, given the early tech situation (no construction bonus to speak of). Your 3rd NF that completes a month later adds 6 CiC's in one chunk. That's 12 times as much as that second line could construct, were it not busy with your agency upgrades.
Again not sure about that... I civ in thirty by itself will build at least three civs by end of 39
Yes and no.
Building agency up to lvl 5 takes 6 month, 180 days basically the same time (+-a few days) 5 civ in the beginning need to build 1 additional civ (infra 8 province).
Long term you lose, short term until ~mid 38 doesnt make a real diffrence.
1 civ on construction 3 free trade schacht and autarky builds another civ in ~ 2 years.
So in mid- end 38 when you switch to mils there its already 2 civs you have if i delay building up the agency until civ build is finished.
When i have 75 or in that case 77 civs building stuff (especially non civ stuff;-)) i care less spending 5 of them if i only have 20.
Limited agency upgrades make sense in 36, they are only 5 civ, and get a head start in cryptology and spy networks. My position however is that building collaboration government should be postponed till 38 because they cost 13 civ over two months...
I did Anschluss 3rd. Rhineland was first then Four Year Plan... I was planning on going Anschluss 2nd but I got distracted and forgot to deploy divisions in time. But this might be the best way to do it anyways, since you get the industry research bonuses and can rush construction 3 faster. You also don't have the PP to switch to war economy right away. Beelined the tech slot after that, then Soviet treaty, then war economy focus (was already on war economy from PP, though), then czech.
I also cancelled all trades from day 1 and didn't make any trades until I started building dockyards. This hurts your fighter production (quite a bit, actually) but 2.5-3k fighters is still fine against the AI for killing Poland and France.
I started with the spy agency but didn't upgrade it until may '38. I did swap in the spy master guy once you lose Schacht, which let me get up the network in both France and Poland to start the collaboration governments as soon as I was done building Civs. I also swapped in the arms factory guy for Hess once I started building Mils/Dockyards.
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