1.8 Teasers
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Um... I'm not convinced you thought that all the way through. I don't think those very negligible drawbacks are going to somehow make up for saving all the minerals in the world.
Let's say I want 400 energy. I can either build a dyson sphere or 4 habitats fully dedicated to energy production
Option 1: a Dyson Sphere
Cost:
300 influence
210,000 minerals
Gain: 400 energy
Option 2: 5 habitats
Cost:
Upfront:
400 influence
4 habitats @ 5000 8 5 = 20000
44 solar collectors @ 250 = 11000
8 Hydroponics Farms IV @ 150 = 1200
Total: 33200
On going:
20 energy per month to maintain hydroponics farms
68% increase in tech costs
Unity costs increase by [something], but no on cares because by the time you can build dyson spheres you would surely have all the perks you actually want.
48 minerals per month, assuming 'decent' living standards
Benefits:
Somewhere between 330 and 430 energy per month, depending on tech, species, edicts, etc etc
52 fleet cap
In short, the habitat option is cheaper by 176800 minerals. Which is a lot of minerals.
In term of the drawbacks:
* I can negate the tech penalty if I really want to by building more science focused habitats. Habitats are great at science, and I have plenty of left over minerals from not building that dyson sphere to to do just that. Assuming you event want to bother, at this point in the game you're well into repeatable techs.
* No one gives a shit about unity at that point in the game. By the time you can get dyson spheres you may well have already filled out the entire tree, and if you haven't you surely have everything you actually want at that point.
* Regarding the, ahem, 'crippling' 48 minerals a month extra in consumer goods usage you get from habitats, you'd have to be running a dyson sphere for about 300 years to get it to pay for itself that way.
* Ditto for any opportunity cost of not building those extra 8 hydroponic farms.
* 100 extra influence for the habitats... hmm, hands up anyone who'd spend 176800 minerals to get 100 influence? Anyone?
In short, dyson spheres are bullshit because the numbers are too low.
Remember when it was the stream before Utopia happened, and the energy you got from a dyson sphere was 200 and they were all, relax guys, not final numbers... and then the final numbers turned out to be 400 and not, say, 4000? Good times.
What would I do? I'd make a dyson sphere give you 10,0000 energy or something, and I'd make all the other megastructures stupidly powerful, but also stupidly expensive to maintain as well. You want a sentential array? 2000 energy per month to maintain. You want a science nexus? Congrats on a your massive, massive boost to science! 2000 energy a month please. Want a ring world, which is now insanely large? 4000 energy to maintain while the site is being built. Want to make a wormhole to another galaxy, when they add that in an expansion? 6000 energy a month for that, cheers. You're a type 2 civilisation now, you can do this crazy shit and you need crazy energy to power it.
Balance? Who cares, it's the end game. Why not go crazy?
I just realized something: the Machine FE talks about the "Delta Refuge". The screenshot with a system that has no planets and tons of debris is adjacent to "Beta Refuge".
Really, It's just the Dyson Sphere that is an always useless Megastructure.
If you did that then the Megastructures would really serve no purpose. They need to have at least some practical use. A better idea would be to reduce the cost of the Dyson Sphere. The Sentry Array is hardly too expensive for the massive usefulness it provides, the Science Nexus IS a better option than habitats if you want to increase science (see relevant thread) and there are too many Ring Worlds used in other places (Sanctuary, FE, Cybrex) for making them ridiculously super mage OP to be viable for the overall game experience.
Really, It's just the Dyson Sphere that is an always useless Megastructure.
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Well, I guess the most recent one isn't very good (https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...math-about-megastructure-vs-habitats.1032651/) and I don't feel like browsing through all of them to find the best, but to summarize:
You need about 5 habitats to match 1 science nexus [3 all research habitats (4 if you have no happiness buffs), 1 that would be all energy and 1 food/minerals for consumer goods]
That would be about 37000 minerals (habitats + buildings approximately) and 650 influence for habitats (including colonization) vs 70000 minerals and 300 influence for Science Nexus. It's not a clear cut, but influence is harder to get, so it's at least a fair trade.
While they do view O's as the rustic hinterland that's so where the majority of the culture citizens live.
The action happens on the ships because they are out there doing stuff but also because they are cool!
RIP Banks
I agree with your cost comparison, (although the timing on pop growth should probably be considered too, unless you already did in your 5 years?) I would simply point out that Dysons attach to stars whereas habs attach to dead worlds, so they're not in direct competition with each other- in fact if you can afford it you should be building habs around your Dyson stars, so my general approach would be building habs first and wonders of any type second. The sphere does seem a little too costly for its benefit, as with most non-hab construction projects, but I think it should still be inefficient when compared to Habs precisely because of the colonized system penalties you're dismissing. When it's not technically an opportunity cost to build a Dyson Sphere vs building a hab in terms of what you can physically build in a system, it sorta becomes apples-and-oranges. The problem here isn't that these oranges aren't apples, it's that the oranges are a bit small on their own terms.
And no, adding to scaling tech costs can matter if you're not about to polish off the game. Keeping up in future tech is still important in staying competitive, especially in larger or more competitive games, so again, the Science Nexus should probably be more expensive than five habs, because it doesn't make research projects more expensive.
You're right that the array is the best one and about why. I'd actually like it if any future megastructures added to the game focused on similarly unique bonuses, too, now that we have ones that provide a way to go tall pretty efficiently. Literally the only thing they haven't added to the basic roster is some sort of mineral-producing megaproject, but I don't think they need to add some sort of stellar matter converter any time soon, and would rather see projects that actually do something new. (I have ideas here but this isn't the place for them, heh)
The ringworld is the one megastructure I have a straight-up problem with as it's currently costed, personally. It absolutely needs to be somewhat comparable to habs in cost efficiency IMO, as they have very similar benefits and restrictions, ie. it eats all the worlds you could be building habs around in a system, and what it grants you in return is living space. All you gain from a Ringworld in comparison to eight habs is the shipyards and four extra tiles, (well, that and any gains from the default building set, and a more defensible position) yet it costs 110,000 minerals to fully complete vs 40,000 for eight habs, (Of course, it is much more efficient in influence, costing 300 for the whole thing vs 100 per for habs, but IMO the fact that you can have habs around a Dyson sphere and can get them without researching megastructures is sufficient tradeoff there) so the mineral cost probably needs to be nerfed significantly. It also takes the same time to build a ringworld site as it does to build a hab, so there's no time advantage, although that does mean it's less likely to gum up your construction ships' queues than habs are, (effectively taking 8x less constructor time per tile) but you pay for that by having to wait a ton longer for both the frame and the sections to complete.
In addition to that, Ringworlds cost an extra ascension perk. IMO as-is they should be in either the wonders perk or the habitats perk, because each section is just an overpriced double-decker hab with a small bonus. You could halve the mineral costs and the build time for each step and still have them be a tradeoff about how many planets there are in the system you're building them in. It would be a legit tradeoff then in systems with eight eligible planets for hab construction, because although you'd pay slightly more, you'd get slightly more, and there would still be systems where you get more out of building a ringworld, vs ones where you get more from several habs. Either retire the Circle of Life ascension perk and roll ringworlds into one of the other two perks, (if it's rolled into Voidborne, then you should still need to research Megastructures) or have it add extra section capacity to Ringworlds if it's desperately needed to pad out the available options.
Oh yes, that'd be a nice QoL bugfix! This really gets on my nerves if I don't get a planet with a frontier hospital on it when conquering their capital, as I automatically go looking to find/build one and only realise afterwards that it's disabled.
Thanks to Wiz for continuing to tease us on Twitter.
Megastructures need to either appear earlier, get heavily buffed, get built by modules (so you can reap the benefits of, say, a half built ringworld) or be a winning condition into itselves. Perhaps all four of them. Specific quests for them would be nice too: Stablishing a post scarcity economy after you build a dyson sphere, detecting something terrifying and weird trought the sentinel array... there are lots of possibilities. Leaving them be as they are right now is a complete waste of assets.
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The 1.8 'Čapek' update will add a new type of citizenship that is used by Hive Minds, Cyborgs & Synth Empires to assimilate Pops.
https://twitter.com/Martin_Anward/status/882194652157415425
Finally I can start upgrading the universe.
https://twitter.com/Martin_Anward/status/882194652157415425
Finally I can start upgrading the universe.
I don't think this has anything to do with it. The Cyborg Empire probably just means an Empire which has gotten the Ascension Perk that turns your species into Cyborgs.
Indeed, but as it seems that some sort of cyborg/synthetic "hive minds" are a likely the mysterious new Hive Mind Authority, it will probably cover them as well.
The 1.8 'Čapek' update will add a new type of citizenship that is used by Hive Minds, Cyborgs & Synth Empires to assimilate Pops.
View attachment 282028
https://twitter.com/Martin_Anward/status/882194652157415425
Finally I can start upgrading the universe.
Question, Assimilation is different kind of citizenship, like not full citizenship...would Xenophilic/Egalitarian factions be against it? Or consider it offensive?
I mean in the case of a cyborg/synthetic empire.
The artificial intelligence policy has been changed in 1.8 to no longer be about robots, but rather about sapient AI in general.
https://twitter.com/Martin_Anward/status/882246468387708928
Also, most Pops will react far more negatively to being assimilated into the Hive Mind than being given a synth body/metal bits.
https://twitter.com/Martin_Anward/status/882195606642601984
So possibly? at a bare minimum those being assimilated would seem to mind. But only time will tell I guess.
https://twitter.com/Martin_Anward/status/882246468387708928
Also, most Pops will react far more negatively to being assimilated into the Hive Mind than being given a synth body/metal bits.
https://twitter.com/Martin_Anward/status/882195606642601984
So possibly? at a bare minimum those being assimilated would seem to mind. But only time will tell I guess.
Hmmm interesting course of action here, at least now Spiritualists realized that there is difference between automated machines and sentient machines.
I wonder if something similar could be done for materialists regarding psionics, like managing to research psionic theory and a bit of telepathy but not harnessing it's full potential.
Though wait a minute...what is the difference between servitude and outlawed now at non synth levels?