1.8 massive nerf to catholosism?

[Ceranai]

Basically unless im missing something being catholic is now almost worthless unless you are the only catholic state, papal influence builds up so slowly that the things you can buy with it are barely worth the wait. Yes if you control it its good buy so far no matter how much PI i spend im unlucky with the curia. Am i missing something? The nerf to controling the curia now has me convert to protestant the second it pops up, the idea cost reduction and tax flat bonuses easily outweighing the benefits PI bring. I guess im just curious how many other people stay catholic when the reformation swings round. Plus anyone who has experience controling the curia, how good are the bonuses??

Ps sorry for typo in title im posting from my phone

 

[Alerias]

Pretty much. The new goodies you can buy with PI nowhere make up for the almost impossibility to reliably gain control of the Curia even as a Catholic superstate, a OPM with a lucky roll can beat you. At best its only going to be useful in the second half the game, assuming you spend the first half uniting the Catholic world.

Hopefully 1.9 balances out the calculations a bit to give due priority to powerful states when it comes to the Curia.

 

[Panzerschiffe]

Also, converting provinces is broken and doesn't give influence like it should.

 

[Ceranai]

Pretty much. The new goodies you can buy with PI nowhere make up for the almost impossibility to reliably gain control of the Curia even as a Catholic superstate, a OPM with a lucky roll can beat you. At best its only going to be useful in the second half the game, assuming you spend the first half uniting the Catholic world.

Hopefully 1.9 balances out the calculations a bit to give due priority to powerful states when it comes to the Curia.

Especially in my hre game i wanted to stay catholic but was getting pretty much no bonuses from it despite being the largest catholic state with most of the catholic world as my vassals

 

[Zak Preston]

Pretty much. The new goodies you can buy with PI nowhere make up for the almost impossibility to reliably gain control of the Curia even as a Catholic superstate, a OPM with a lucky roll can beat you. At best its only going to be useful in the second half the game, assuming you spend the first half uniting the Catholic world.

Hopefully 1.9 balances out the calculations a bit to give due priority to powerful states when it comes to the Curia.

Spoiler

This is because Sweden 99 times of 100 is Protestant in EU4. /sarcasm off

Jokes aside, but this system is much more fair, 'cause it removes perma-Curia control. It was frustrating to see how in many games France, Spain or Austria control Pope for centuries without no chance to even remotely change the course of actions.
But the bad thing is that now non-European nations (especially powerful ex-CN's or westernized Native Americans) have no reason to Catholic at all.

 

[Santoes]

Being controller now gives a major bonus to a bunch of nice things. To even be controller you have to have at least one Cardinal, and that is based on luck, and rich BT territories you own.

The main way to get papal influence is to boost your relations with the papal state, and to control cardinals.

You can cherry pick the competitions cardinals easily enough by finding out where they are. You go to the Curia menu and hover your mouse over the nation that has a cardinal to see where they are on the map. They most likely spawn in rich BT territories; like capitals.

You get a max boost to influence by taking papal as a vassal and keeping there relations high. 200 relations doubles your influence gained.

The other method is to just go after rich BT territories in general. They are most likely to spawn a cardinal.

Finally theocracy's and certain NI's give a good influence boost. The best papal influence from a country is the Knights, and Spain. Inside Europe Tuscany, Bavaria, the Irish, Generic Italian, Brittany!, Savoy, and several theocracies.

 

[BarrosRodrigues]

Being curia controller is random but influence can now be spent to raise stability which IMO is something incredibly useful.

 

[Loha4]

Yeah if you keep the pope happy and have a full complement of cardinals you can crank that stability up every 15 years or so, chances are that's stability sorted for life it's not bad at all.

 

[FrosT37]

For me, there are really two things worth buying with papal influence: mercantilism and legitimacy. These things are really hard to get otherwise.

 

[balmung60]

My biggest beef with 1.8 Catholicism is that crusades don't seem to work right. In every past patch, declaring a crusade would give you a holy war CB on the crusade target (provided that you border the target), but with no mention in patch notes, calling a crusade currently does not give any CB.

 

[RobRoy3]

Yeah if you keep the pope happy and have a full complement of cardinals you can crank that stability up every 15 years or so, chances are that's stability sorted for life it's not bad at all.

Yeah, that one can be useful. But Influence accrues soooo slowly, I tend to go to Protestant or Reformed, myself, post 1.8.

Yes, being Curia Controller is great, now. But getting there is awfully chancy. And most of the other Papal boons strike me as pretty lame.

Perhaps worst of all - I used to be pretty resistant to reload temptations, even when not playing ironman. Since the new Curia system came along, I've now save-scummed twice on Papal deaths. <hangs head in shame> There's just something incredibly irritating about losing my 40-50% chance so consistently and seeing controller go to someone with like 7%

For me, there are really two things worth buying with papal influence: mercantilism and legitimacy. These things are really hard to get otherwise.

Meh. Maybe it's just playstyle, but I rarely have trouble with legitimacy. And a whopping boost of 1 to Mercantilism strikes me as the most expensive and least worthwhile way to spend something that accrues so slowly.

My biggest beef with 1.8 Catholicism is that crusades don't seem to work right. In every past patch, declaring a crusade would give you a holy war CB on the crusade target (provided that you border the target), but with no mention in patch notes, calling a crusade currently does not give any CB.

Doesn't it give you the CB if you have a land border?

 

[balmung60]

Doesn't it give you the CB if you have a land border?

Nope, not anymore. It used to give the CB when you had a land border and looking at 00_cb_types.txt, it's still supposed to give you the CB if you have the necessary border, but something is broken and you don't get the CB and need to use some other CB (or none) to declare war on the target.

 

[Squirrelloid]

The most annoying thing about the curia system is it won't let you have more than 7 cardinals. You conquer cardinal provinces and some of your cardinals just disappear. And then it hands out piles of cardinals to countries with less than half as many provinces as you (because its trying to reach some total number of cardinals or something), which results in this bizarre distribution of cardinals and keeps weaker countries with smaller territories on par with you for cardinals (because the 7 cardinal cap is *really easy* to hit).

(And this only helps make curia controller stupidly random, because you can't actually decrease other nations ability to compete for it by taking their cardinals away - you don't actually get those cardinals, and they'll just be handed some more).

 

[dstarsboy]

It's more of a role playing thing now. However, for a country like Poland, getting to use Papal Points on bumping stability and legitimacy is a godsend (pun intended).

 

[Empreorpoef]

as provence i racked up 10 papal influence per year (only having 20 or so provinces)

thats 1 mercantilism every 10 years

(which is GREAT)

 

[ChildeR]

Slight nerf to SP Catholic player expander. Buff to all other Catholics.

 

[anomanderus]

Spoiler

This is because Sweden 99 times of 100 is Protestant in EU4. /sarcasm off

Jokes aside, but this system is much more fair, 'cause it removes perma-Curia control. It was frustrating to see how in many games France, Spain or Austria control Pope for centuries without no chance to even remotely change the course of actions.
But the bad thing is that now non-European nations (especially powerful ex-CN's or westernized Native Americans) have no reason to Catholic at all.

In EU3 I always wanted to play a game as the Iroquois and convert to Protestantism, but I think the event to convert was disabled at some point in the game's development and I never did. Now I have no reason to be Catholic and can make my Protestant Iroquois League republic stretch across Quebec and New York.

 

[Viperswhip]

In EU3 I always wanted to play a game as the Iroquois and convert to Protestantism, but I think the event to convert was disabled at some point in the game's development and I never did. Now I have no reason to be Catholic and can make my Protestant Iroquois League republic stretch across Quebec and New York.

Kind of depends on who shows up around you, Jake managed to convert to Reformed in his Chavs run quite easily.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Kind of depends on who shows up around you, Jake managed to convert to Reformed in his Chavs run quite easily.

You can convert to any of them if the reformation for them has happened, on pain of the usual prestige loss. Not that prestige during westernization is a high thing anyway with the -30 events you get a few times often. It's okay, there are natives to beat on to get it back, I mean look, you're surrounded by heathen PRIMITIVES!

Anyway, regardless of what you border you can just switch to protestant or reformed like any European, you even get the religious zeal bonus...not that you can use it in most cases. I went reformed as Tarascan off a bordering Catholic province.

 

[smellymummy]

I really haven't been paying attention, but seeing how it's been mentioned a few times here in this thread on how being the curia controller is great, what are these great bonuses?

And btw I've also noticed not getting any influence on province conversions, though these were always non christian to catholic conversion so maybe it's just heretic conversion that is supposed to gives influence, and also noticed the lack of crusade CB on bordered crusade targets. Hopefully this stuff gets fixed in the next patch