1.8 Byzantium

[TheMeInTeam]

With heathen tolerance and reduced nationalism you won't have unrest anyway. There's not even a real reason to convert those lands right away thanks to the religious unity from Humanism. As I said the CB isn't that important anymore and the "Restore the Pentarchy" event fires quite early. Which means you can take at least Rome almost right away.

If anything Religious is overrated, not Humanism.

You will have a base tolerance of heathens of 0, 1 if you take a policy. You will have nationalism all the same, though reduced in duration. Even with -2 unrest, this is nowhere NEAR religious until you convert, but you won't be able to convert quickly.

Once you have converted, then humanist gives more -rr than religious, but only then. In TF provinces, however, your modifiers will overpower the unrest regardless.

I believe you are underestimating the utility of the superiority religious CB. Also note that religious is part of the religious/diplomatic/aristocratic truce break trifecta if one wants to go that route (and BYZ is an excellent candidate to do so).

 

[Ranjid]

You will have a base tolerance of heathens of 0, 1 if you take a policy. You will have nationalism all the same, though reduced in duration. Even with -2 unrest, this is nowhere NEAR religious until you convert, but you won't be able to convert quickly.

Once you have converted, then humanist gives more -rr than religious, but only then. In TF provinces, however, your modifiers will overpower the unrest regardless.

I believe you are underestimating the utility of the superiority religious CB. Also note that religious is part of the religious/diplomatic/aristocratic truce break trifecta if one wants to go that route (and BYZ is an excellent candidate to do so).

The length of nationalism determines the unrest modifier. That's the big secret as to why Humanism is overpowered. You basically gain a quadruple Unrest reduction from Tolerance, Religious Unity, -Unrest and shorter Nationalism.

 

[Iamdead7]

I got a good Byzantium run on my first try. The new trade node changes give you tons of income as Byzantium to build galleys. I used to have to restart tons and tons and tons of times, but this was really easy, even with the core changes.

 

[Ranjid]

Hello. I have two questions for you.
1) What do you mean by "Occupy balkans until cores flip"?
2) How did you get: "Knights of Rhodes>Byzantium. 28 Basetax Constantinople."?

Thanks.

1.) He means the Defection Event (which is very unlikely to happen) or patriot rebels. They simply occupy those provinces and hand them over to you.
2.) Giving Constantinople to the Turks first makes them add +6 Base Tax. Upon reestablishment of the Themata System - a decision available to you after conquering Anatolia - you gain another 6 Basetax. With other events like Agricultural Revolution (+2 BT) and the University/Arts Academy event (+1 BT) you can reach ridiculous numbers in Constantinople.

 

[liquidak]

We are talking about Ironman, righh? With it's +50% FL AI bonus, which means that Ottos can twice more ships their FL allows. Around 80-100 ships is uite common for them to have when you think you are ready to take Greece back.

Yup, Ironman. Maybe I got lucky but the Ottomans had a navy of around 50 ships (they hadn't been at war with any naval powers) when I attacked them at around... 1449? Few years after the earliest start-date anyway. This is in 1.8 with all DLCs.

 

[Strager]

As always, the best way to play Byzantium in EU4 is to get CK2 + converter and play a late-game start and convert over. Gives you the time you need to fortify + expand enough to really enjoy EU4 as them.

 

[cold warpgates]

I just tried my first Byzantium run, I won the naval battle for the strait but the Ottomans allied with Crimea AND the golden horde, who got military access from both Lithuania and Moldavia... ;_;

 

[ChildeR]

1.8 Byz is definitely quite easy. Started a game, allied Poland, won the first war without loans, taking all cores but their capital. While I was tied up in allies' wars waiting for the truce, I get all the Genoan and Venezian/vassal holdings as "return core" gifts from Tuscany and France's peace deals.

Ok, so the second part was luck, but you can win Ottomans without any special tactics just by beating their navy and blocking.

 

[Suzaku]

1.8 Byz is definitely quite easy. Started a game, allied Poland, won the first war without loans, taking all cores but their capital. While I was tied up in allies' wars waiting for the truce, I get all the Genoan and Venezian/vassal holdings as "return core" gifts from Tuscany and France's peace deals.

Ok, so the second part was luck, but you can win Ottomans without any special tactics just by beating their navy and blocking.

You're also forgetting to improve relationship with linthunia as occasionly they give access to ottoman and chrimiea, and moldvia starts with giving them access as well.

 

[Beagá]

1.8 Byz is definitely quite easy. Started a game, allied Poland, won the first war without loans, taking all cores but their capital. While I was tied up in allies' wars waiting for the truce, I get all the Genoan and Venezian/vassal holdings as "return core" gifts from Tuscany and France's peace deals.

Ok, so the second part was luck, but you can win Ottomans without any special tactics just by beating their navy and blocking.

Works like a charm as Venice too.

 

[ChildeR]

You're also forgetting to improve relationship with linthunia as occasionly they give access to ottoman and chrimiea, and moldvia starts with giving them access as well.

They became rivals, so I didn't have to do that, but might be needed if they get along.

 

[equimarginal]

I think I must be missing something. Within a year or so Ottos usually have about 50 galleys to say nothing of Crimea's fleet. So everyone who is talking about shutting down the strait, this just doesn't seem viable. There's no way I can keep up with that. I've just played 10 (!) games and the same stuff happens each time. Ottos insta-warn me, start blobbing and building a huge galley fleet, and by the time a war comes around, Hungary/Poland/Austria (which I can usually get all as allies no problem now) will be fighting each other, and Ottos steamroll me and take the Balkans. Byzantium does seem a bit easier now to get alliances/money, but Ottos are just too powerful. So what am I missing?

 

[Avalanchemike]

I think I must be missing something. Within a year or so Ottos usually have about 50 galleys to say nothing of Crimea's fleet. So everyone who is talking about shutting down the strait, this just doesn't seem viable. There's no way I can keep up with that. I've just played 10 (!) games and the same stuff happens each time. Ottos insta-warn me, start blobbing and building a huge galley fleet, and by the time a war comes around, Hungary/Poland/Austria (which I can usually get all as allies no problem now) will be fighting each other, and Ottos steamroll me and take the Balkans. Byzantium does seem a bit easier now to get alliances/money, but Ottos are just too powerful. So what am I missing?

I day 1 dow'd Ragusa. With that in hand, I forged a claim on Bosnia while raising relations with them to 100. When Serbs dow Bosnia, I enforce peace and force-vassalise the Serbs then turn to doing the same to Bosnia. Build relations with Poland + Austria (the latter is harder because of AE, but you need to bite that bullet) and aim for eventually alliance with both or at least Poland. Constantly build galleys - you need at least 25 but probably more like 30. I keep a few cogs to move myself about if need be. After that you just need to plan your first war carefully. Get a decent shock admiral, wait until the Turk is off in Anatolia fighting some beylik and then DoW. Wait until his fleet is in at least half, have your stack of ships waiting on theirs and you should be gravy. When I fought them, they had nearly all their fleet in two adjacent sea provinces and they didn't even try to bring the rest of their fleet in to attack my smaller one. With that first chunk down, it's just a matter of playing cat and mouse until all their ships are gone. You don't even need allies for the first war honestly, just enough troops to carpet their European side of things and to keep an eye on the Ionian sea for incursions from Teclemen. I was unlucky in my game because they've swallowed most/ALL of the beyliks except for OPM Karaman and Ramazan. It's tougher when they're stronger in Anatolia to begin launching invasions there.

In my previous game, Candar and Karaman were still somewhat strong and had most/all of their territory. I sat most of my troops in Sivas (mountains :3) the only province connecting the east and west of their holdings and they couldn't do nothing. Had my allies and a couple of small merc stacks siege the rest of Anatolia.

 

[equimarginal]

Just tried a few more times, apparently Ottomans are much more powerful for me than for others (which obviously makes no sense). All Anatolia always swallowed up by 1450. My current game: 1452, no Beyliks left in Anatolia, Ottomans ate Serbia also, currently have 62 galleys.

 

[equimarginal]

1.8 Byz is definitely quite easy. Started a game, allied Poland, won the first war without loans, taking all cores but their capital. While I was tied up in allies' wars waiting for the truce, I get all the Genoan and Venezian/vassal holdings as "return core" gifts from Tuscany and France's peace deals.

Ok, so the second part was luck, but you can win Ottomans without any special tactics just by beating their navy and blocking.

I don't get it? When are you fighting the first war? For me, not possible to have even *half* the number of galleys Ottos have. Poland always caught up in their own war, usually with Hungary, and even so, Ottos have more troops than me + Poland combined. One game, Ottos beat a combined force of Poland, Lithuania, Austria, me, Wallachia, and Serbia.

 

[Suzaku]

I don't get it? When are you fighting the first war? For me, not possible to have even *half* the number of galleys Ottos have. Poland always caught up in their own war, usually with Hungary, and even so, Ottos have more troops than me + Poland combined. One game, Ottos beat a combined force of Poland, Lithuania, Austria, me, Wallachia, and Serbia.

For me I lucked out Venice decided to dow on me because they wanted cyprus which defected along with Chois (sp? Though that may have been given to me as a peace deal ) this got Poland and Austria involved, during the war Ottomans Dow on me for Constantinople mid war when I was about to peace out. They decided to march their armies into chois for some reason and after destroying their seperated fleet I just parked it there with a single cog at the capital in case of anyone making its way through there. I managed not only siege all of their European areas but their Antaolia as well. Thanks to the two wars I built trust between the two nations and I was able to help both Poland and Austria in their wars building even more trust.

 

[ChildeR]

I don't get it? When are you fighting the first war? For me, not possible to have even *half* the number of galleys Ottos have. Poland always caught up in their own war, usually with Hungary, and even so, Ottos have more troops than me + Poland combined. One game, Ottos beat a combined force of Poland, Lithuania, Austria, me, Wallachia, and Serbia.

A few years after the start. I waited for them to win against Albania and then take the armies to Asia Minor for another war.

You can support something like twice your FL without even going negative. Just save enough money to match them for a few months, or be ready to take loans. Roll a couple of admirals if you can't build a significant advantage.

Or you can get lucky, if they tangle with an enemy who have some kind of a navy. DOW when their navy is weaker. Only happened for me in a later war, where I would have won regardless.

 

[Malefidus]

I'd be grateful for opinions on next moves. I did quite well with this first start as Byzantium, double force limits with Galleys and destroyed the entire Ottomans fleet piecemeal. I didn't fight a single land battle in this war and only the Timurids being stubborn and not accepting Peace prevented even more being taken. Managed to snag Chios back from Genoa when they got dragged into a war with Austria.

I have two years left on the truce with the Ottomans. Unfortunately I've been stuffed by continuous problems with Legitimacy and Prestige and chose very poorly when it came to Rivals. I will change Genoa to Serbia but can't do that until 1469 so a few years off.

Should I release Bulgaria and reclaim all their cores during the next war with the Ottomans or just straight up annex provinces? I'm running into an ADM shortage due to this Regency and will start to fall behind in Tech.

Outside of Ottomans strategy, I'm allied with Austria and Poland so will probably get a sneaky war in with Venice to reclaim my cores there plus Crete. Will annex Kosovo while vassalizing the rest of Serbia in the near future.

Biggest question is whether to release Bulgaria or not, any thoughts? Thanks.

 

[Ceranai]

I'm a little confused to the people saying ottoderps had 50+ ships by the time they declared war. Every run I have tried in 1.8 they start with something like 17 and a trade fleet, within two years or so if you build galleys from all three ports you should have a navy 2 galleys bigger than theirs, invest in a good admiral and try to catch one of their fleets by itself and its a pretty easy to win naval battle. I've now beaten the ottoderps several times in 1.8 using this (I reloaded because I was trying several different long term strategies)

In general 1.8 seems much easier, which I am a big fan of, I love the new rebel system though I do think its maybe a tad too weak (In my ottoderp run I've conquered huge amounts of land and had 4 rebellions in total rise up). I really miss the % chance of terrain though, it was easy enough to understand how it worked and now maneuver is twice as useless as it was because now it has no effect on the battle at all.

 

[aethel27]

Is Wallachia allied to anyone? If not annex the release them and feed them all of the Bulgarian cores, they'll core it for you. Continue to feed them surrounding territory (Moldavia and Transylvania when you inevitably have to fight). As for the ottomans... declare war to get your cores back then blockade them entirely and let rebels retake their capital for you.

YMMV