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Nem3sys

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2nsrqro.jpg


not one of my best game with them but worked,backstabbed russia around 1680 with a claim throne and dow on them they has low manpower and army so was easy.
i think they need to westernize too early,but u need to that when are little or it take too much,can be a good tactics take istria and join empire at start but is not an easy thing to do,with the new unrest system u waste a lot of military power sometimes.
 

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2nsrqro.jpg


not one of my best game with them but worked,backstabbed russia around 1680 with a claim throne and dow on them they has low manpower and army so was easy.
i think they need to westernize too early,but u need to that when are little or it take too much,can be a good tactics take istria and join empire at start but is not an easy thing to do,with the new unrest system u waste a lot of military power sometimes.

I would definitely join the Empire, the positives way outweigh the costs, and that's a pretty cool map, I am on the throne to Castile and France myself, can RM England, Muscovy or Novgorod at any time.

That's a pretty good map.
 

ktk1212

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To take Chios, literally all you have to do is get into a war with Austria being on your side then declare war on Genoa. Austria can't come to their defense if they are already in a war with you. It's annoying to have to wait for that, but it's not too hard.
 

Viperswhip

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To take Chios, literally all you have to do is get into a war with Austria being on your side then declare war on Genoa. Austria can't come to their defense if they are already in a war with you. It's annoying to have to wait for that, but it's not too hard.

Chios let's you westernize? I am not 7 tech levels down yet and I have never reached a point in a Byz game where Westernization was an option. I've had Chios for a long, long time and I think I may now be too big to Westernize (for it to be worth it I mean).
 

elglanto

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Is it really worth it to westernize since it is "just" a 20% malus and you can easily get a 10% bonus by sharing a border with a western country and have good relations with him?
 

Ranjid

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Is it really worth it to westernize since it is "just" a 20% malus and you can easily get a 10% bonus by sharing a border with a western country and have good relations with him?

If you want to expand eastwards into India and Indonesia, it is. Since you'll be able to assign trade companies to those lands and get way more income that way. If you want to sit in Europe just stick with eastern.
 

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I know this thread is mostly about Byzantium strategies for players, but I just had to mention something amusing in my current Portugal game (and as such, not influencing that part of the world in the least). The Ottomans got ganged up on by just about everyone in the area in an alliance led by Venice (Austria, Poland, Lithuania, etc.), while the Mameluks and their allies piled on from the other side. Basically when Venice peaced out, they took Albania for themselves - and gave 6 or 7 provinces to their lucky ally Byzantium (all of mainland Greece plus Rhodes and Chios which the Ottomans had taken earlier). Later, since the Ottomans were still being thrashed in the east by the Mameluks, Byzantium and Serbia declared war and drove the Ottomans back even further. Right now in 1500, the Byzantines (and a rebellious Bulgaria) own all of the Ottoman provinces in Europe outside of Edirne (plus the Byzantines have diplo-annexed Athens as well). I'm hoping to see the resurgent Roman Empire crush the Turks entirely!
 

zodium

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If you can secure Chios early on, that's essentially game over for AI Ottomans. They will walk a full stack right in there, which you can then lock down in order to effectively halve their army. Siege them to 100% until they disband them. It's like Naxos turned up to 11.
 

Ranjid

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If you can secure Chios early on, that's essentially game over for AI Ottomans. They will walk a full stack right in there, which you can then lock down in order to effectively halve their army. Siege them to 100% until they disband them. It's like Naxos turned up to 11.

Oh yeah, my beloved Island Trap. Works like a charm with Venice as well. All in all I'd say that Byzantium is easier than ever (except with the Torched Earth exploit and the early days when Moldavia wouldn't give the Turks MA), due to immense income and stupid AI.

But I'm still grumpy about the lost cores.
 

Ranjid

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Just use the workaround mentioned earlier in the thread.

I've been in this thread from Page 1. I know about the exploit. But this messes up way more things than just the cores. I don't even mind not having those cores, because recovering them is simple enough. I just hate the fact that PDI removed them in the first place. Without any rationale to do so.
 

Zak Preston

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Oh yeah, my beloved Island Trap. Works like a charm with Venice as well. All in all I'd say that Byzantium is easier than ever (except with the Torched Earth exploit and the early days when Moldavia wouldn't give the Turks MA), due to immense income and stupid AI.

But I'm still grumpy about the lost cores.

eu4_41.jpg


You mean this? =)
 

zodium

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eu4_41.jpg


You mean this? =)

It's funny that, for all the changes to the early Byz play from 1.0 through 1.8, the one strategy that always guaranteed victory never changed. It only got better, really!
 

TheMeInTeam

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It's funny that, for all the changes to the early Byz play from 1.0 through 1.8, the one strategy that always guaranteed victory never changed. It only got better, really!

They at least made a pass at nerfing it by making winning naval superiority harder (Ottos spam galleys pretty heavily in 1.8), but that doesn't mean you can't still win naval superiority.

In 1.8, however, naval superiority means they can't get into Greece anyway since they almost never get military access to go around. This tactic is more for an easy in on Anatolia after reclaiming your cores. Amusingly in my game I never wound up using it because in my 2nd war on Ottos they were getting smacked around by Aq Qoyunlu and a few Beyliks, I think my WE camping them gave them an untimely rebellion or some such, so there weren't enough regiments to bother trapping.
 

GerDeathstar

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I tried playing Byzantium with the latest hotfix, on Ironman. After two attempts that failed miserably due to myself thinking that 30 galleys would be enough I was finally somewhat successful in my third. This time I took even more loans and spammed the crap out of galleys, to a point where I had 45 ships. With this, I declared war on the Ottomans who at the time were allied to Crimea, Tlemcen and the Timurid horde. I had a standing army of 12.000 and no allies willing to go to war with me (defensive pacts with Georgia and Wallachia).

So, the war commenced and I proceeded to intercept some of the smaller Ottoman fleets around Greece, then position the bulk of the fleet to block access to Greece. The Ottomans have fought Candar just prior to our war, which was very helpful as they had moved their entire army onto Anatolia. Athens was actually being very helpful with their 3.000 men and we soon managed to capture all of Greece, Albania and Bulgaria with Ottoman soldiers looking sadly across the strait. During all this time, Tlemcen continuously sent tiny transport fleets to land 1k armies one at a time onto Achea - annoying, but not dangerous.
Occupying all of Greece gave us 39% warscore in total and it was not going to get much better than that, so I took what I could grab and had the Ottomans return four Grecian provinces to me. It was either that OR Edirne (the wargoal). I was a little careless when declaring war, as only when negotiating for peace I realised that Edirne is in fact the Ottoman capital, and I was unable to claim it in combination with any other provinces. I chose the four other provinces instead, wanting as much of an economy boost (and manpower/force limit) as I could get in preparation for the inevitable next war. All in all, it felt like a success and a definite path to taking back all of Greece.

But what followed would spell my demise. I returned all troops home, prepared for the annexation of Athens and cut back all maintenance to finally return to a positive balance (automatic loans skyrocketed during the war). Byzantium was 1.300 gold in debt and had 40% inflation. Over the following decades I spent my time trying to get the money back, as I was getting close to the maximum amount of loans. Every time I hit 10 gold I would pay back one of the 9 gold loans plus interest which were more than 100 in numbers. For a very long time, nothing happened. I could not recruit any more troops, as that would have meant taking even more loans and the fleet had shrunk down to 29 galleys, 2 barques and 4 cogs following the skirmishes in the mediterranian sea during the war. I was feeling confident that this fleet would suffice for the next war - which would be fought to take Edirne, completely cutting the Ottomans off from land access to Greece. I also managed to sneak in an alliance with Hungary through flattery and the right rivals (Venice). But for many years to come, Byzantium would sit idly by, trying to pay back its debts.

Fast forward to almost 20 years later, the loan was down to 700 gold, but the inflation was up to 58% due to some loans having to be extended. Luckily, the interest was down enough for me to be earning 2.5 gold every month. Still not a lot, but a start.

Not wanting to continue this for another 40 years, I prepared the next war, which I wanted to get into before 1500. Maintenance back up, waiting for the Ottomans to get into a fight with someone and go for it, that was the plan. Naturally, it did not take them very long to get into a somewhat big war with the Mamluks (finally!) and Hungary was even willing to join in on my side, so I declared war for Edirne. Sadly for me, the Ottomans have used all this time to build their fleet back up to more than full strength. My 30-odd galleys guarding the strait were surprised by a fleet of almost 50 galleys plus a combination of barques and cogs. Needless to say, my fleet was annihilated despite their fantastic admiral. You can guess what happened next, the Ottomans finished their skirmishes with the Mamluks, came back with Timurid support and 50-doomstacked mine and the Hungarian armies in one go. Game over.

What do you do in this situation? Should I have declared war for something else right at the start? Should I not have waited so long to pay back loans?
 

Zak Preston

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They at least made a pass at nerfing it by making winning naval superiority harder (Ottos spam galleys pretty heavily in 1.8), but that doesn't mean you can't still win naval superiority.

In 1.8, however, naval superiority means they can't get into Greece anyway since they almost never get military access to go around. This tactic is more for an easy in on Anatolia after reclaiming your cores. Amusingly in my game I never wound up using it because in my 2nd war on Ottos they were getting smacked around by Aq Qoyunlu and a few Beyliks, I think my WE camping them gave them an untimely rebellion or some such, so there weren't enough regiments to bother trapping.

I've managed to block their armies in Anatolia: I've placed 1 inf on Corfu, and while their fleet was almost twice larger (90 vs 50), they weren't consolidated in one stack and patrolled the their seas in 3 groups. So I just DoWed them when they had 30 stack in Marmar Sea, then came their 50 stack and I had to retreat with my last 20 galleys, but I took out around 50 of their ships. Then they moved their remaining 40 ships to the Corfu sector to prevent my 1 (!!!) inf from moving to land. and whenever I moved my galleys from Constantinople port Ottos fleet stared moving towards my forces. Then I moved back galleys and ordered 1 inf move from Corfu, and their stack returned to block my heroic 1k =))
 

zodium

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What do you do in this situation? Should I have declared war for something else right at the start? Should I not have waited so long to pay back loans?

You did everything mostly right, but going into a loan spiral killed your momentum. Better economic micromanagement would have saved you.

They at least made a pass at nerfing it by making winning naval superiority harder (Ottos spam galleys pretty heavily in 1.8), but that doesn't mean you can't still win naval superiority.

In 1.8, however, naval superiority means they can't get into Greece anyway since they almost never get military access to go around. This tactic is more for an easy in on Anatolia after reclaiming your cores. Amusingly in my game I never wound up using it because in my 2nd war on Ottos they were getting smacked around by Aq Qoyunlu and a few Beyliks, I think my WE camping them gave them an untimely rebellion or some such, so there weren't enough regiments to bother trapping.

Getting Chios early means that you can lock their army down and siege Anatolia in the first war, which I think is pretty substantial.