1.8 Byzantium

[Viperswhip]

Oh I see. It makes sense.

I'm not quite used to this new co-belligerents mechanics.

Sorry, yes, I should have made clear what I meant by that. Let us know how it goes, I am curios. Try following my advice if you can, at worst you may white peace with a bunch of loans, and at best you bankrupt the Ottos and all your Greek provinces flip to you, kind of like the 1.51 cheese strategy.

Yes, thanks for that fix Paradox, it was the most fun I've had playing Byz since EU3.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

The Alliance serbia dow albania doesn't seem to work anymore.

'If' and that's a big 1 out of 20 if, Ottomans choose to chase the Albanians into Serbia- they only do so with half their forces. Leaving the other half to siege.

And to you above, I swear every time I've tried that I've had 25 galleys to the Ottomans 50-70. With that sorta number divide and conquer navalwise stops working. With the latest patch Ottomans spams galleys and they have a far better economy for it than you.

They had 30+ galleys when I declared, but I started my war in 1448 and spent all my money on galleys myself.

Their galleys didn't save them.

 

[Viperswhip]

They had 30+ galleys when I declared, but I started my war in 1448 and spent all my money on galleys myself.

Their galleys didn't save them.

70 galleys, you are playing on Hard with AI bonuses, there is no other explanation. I play on Hard AI no bonuses. So my first war was against Venice and Genoa and I didn't get to the Ottos until later than I would like, I had Serbia and Bosnia by then. They still only had 27 or so galleys, but all spread out. I built so many galleys, 20 over the force limit by then because I had to keep Venice's troops on their island in the sun so they couldn't ship somewhere else. Still, the Austrians never attacked them there.

Basically, declare war any time the Ottos are on Anatolia. Be the aggressor though, as soon as you can beat their navy and they are on the other side, go for it.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

70 galleys, you are playing on Hard with AI bonuses, there is no other explanation. I play on Hard AI no bonuses. So my first war was against Venice and Genoa and I didn't get to the Ottos until later than I would like, I had Serbia and Bosnia by then. They still only had 27 or so galleys, but all spread out. I built so many galleys, 20 over the force limit by then because I had to keep Venice's troops on their island in the sun so they couldn't ship somewhere else. Still, the Austrians never attacked them there.

Basically, declare war any time the Ottos are on Anatolia. Be the aggressor though, as soon as you can beat their navy and they are on the other side, go for it.

If it's with those bonuses, you might want to release + declare on Athens to grab them + Cyprus, and jack Venice when they're fighting the Mamluks. Then you can get the 40-50 galleys needed to catch a 70 galley fleet split.

 

[Viperswhip]

If it's with those bonuses, you might want to release + declare on Athens to grab them + Cyprus, and jack Venice when they're fighting the Mamluks. Then you can get the 40-50 galleys needed to catch a 70 galley fleet split.

It's only safe to release Athens when they are at war with the Otto's with you, that way the Otto's can't do anything before your own 5 year truce is up. Cyprus is dangerous to get, if the Otto's have 70, won't Venice and the Mamluks as well?

 

[TheMeInTeam]

It's only safe to release Athens when they are at war with the Otto's with you, that way the Otto's can't do anything before your own 5 year truce is up. Cyprus is dangerous to get, if the Otto's have 70, won't Venice and the Mamluks as well?

If Venice and the Mamluks have 70 and are fighting over Cyprus (assuming you don't have it yet), then 70 + your ships > 70 ships.

 

[defendurname]

I did the galley spam tactic. Spammed galleys until I was way over forcelimits, waited for Ottomans to get into war (I was lucky and their fleet took a hit against the Mamuluks), get an admiral and kill one of their trade fleets ASAP and then blockade the strait. THey should hopefully have moved all their troops to their maindland so you can siege away and retake all your Greek Orthodox cores. If lucky you can get them to either release Bulgaria or let the Bulgarian rebels enforce their demands and then declare war on Bulgaria afterwards. After that just keep a strong naval fleet (which shouldn;t be hard because the AI is terrible at rebuilding fleets) and the Ottomans won't be a problem especially with your new Austrian and Polish allies.

 

[Viperswhip]

I did the galley spam tactic. Spammed galleys until I was way over forcelimits, waited for Ottomans to get into war (I was lucky and their fleet took a hit against the Mamuluks), get an admiral and kill one of their trade fleets ASAP and then blockade the strait. THey should hopefully have moved all their troops to their maindland so you can siege away and retake all your Greek Orthodox cores. If lucky you can get them to either release Bulgaria or let the Bulgarian rebels enforce their demands and then declare war on Bulgaria afterwards. After that just keep a strong naval fleet (which shouldn;t be hard because the AI is terrible at rebuilding fleets) and the Ottomans won't be a problem especially with your new Austrian and Polish allies.

Here's the thing, it's a bit of an advanced tactic because it is not obvious. Nobody, except other Sunnis in the region, care at all what you do to the Ottos, and by the time anyone cares enough to join a coalition you will be able to crush them anyway. So, you take Burgas and release Bulgaria, you don't need a claim though that reduces the diplo cost, then feed them. Bulgaria is even better now as a vassal than last patch, by the time you are ready to absorb them, you will have taken all their lands back from the Ottos.

If the Ottos join a coalition it's like a Birthday present for you because it allows you abuse the Truce. That's why you start taking over land by the Horde (get Treb back to make claims), because the Golden Horde will join and wow, do they ever suck. Now you get two wars for the price of one, before the Ottos have a chance to even start building one more unit you can be raging back across their land.

If you let Bulgaria form on it's own it will be too big to diplo annex and you don't particularly want yet another war to vassalize or annex them.

 

[Ranjid]

Here's the thing, it's a bit of an advanced tactic because it is not obvious. Nobody, except other Sunnis in the region, care at all what you do to the Ottos, and by the time anyone cares enough to join a coalition you will be able to crush them anyway. So, you take Burgas and release Bulgaria, you don't need a claim though that reduces the diplo cost, then feed them. Bulgaria is even better now as a vassal than last patch, by the time you are ready to absorb them, you will have taken all their lands back from the Ottos.

If the Ottos join a coalition it's like a Birthday present for you because it allows you abuse the Truce. That's why you start taking over land by the Horde (get Treb back to make claims), because the Golden Horde will join and wow, do they ever suck. Now you get two wars for the price of one, before the Ottos have a chance to even start building one more unit you can be raging back across their land.

If you let Bulgaria form on it's own it will be too big to diplo annex and you don't particularly want yet another war to vassalize or annex them.

Well, that's a nice theory, but it doesn't quite work that way. Nations you have a truce with can't join a coalition against you. And if you beat them in a coalition war they will leave the coalition afterwards until the truce is over.

 

[Viperswhip]

Well, that's a nice theory, but it doesn't quite work that way. Nations you have a truce with can't join a coalition against you. And if you beat them in a coalition war they will leave the coalition afterwards until the truce is over.

Umm...I definitely was at war against the Ottos twice in a couple of years yesterday. I can't remember the exact details, ahhh, yes, I attacked the Golden Horde who was in the coalition, and the Ottos were allied with them, so two wars very shortly. Yes, sorry, incorrect information in my earlier post.

 

[defendurname]

Here's the thing, it's a bit of an advanced tactic because it is not obvious. Nobody, except other Sunnis in the region, care at all what you do to the Ottos, and by the time anyone cares enough to join a coalition you will be able to crush them anyway. So, you take Burgas and release Bulgaria, you don't need a claim though that reduces the diplo cost, then feed them. Bulgaria is even better now as a vassal than last patch, by the time you are ready to absorb them, you will have taken all their lands back from the Ottos.

If the Ottos join a coalition it's like a Birthday present for you because it allows you abuse the Truce. That's why you start taking over land by the Horde (get Treb back to make claims), because the Golden Horde will join and wow, do they ever suck. Now you get two wars for the price of one, before the Ottos have a chance to even start building one more unit you can be raging back across their land.

If you let Bulgaria form on it's own it will be too big to diplo annex and you don't particularly want yet another war to vassalize or annex them.

I think its fine to just let Bulgaria be released. As soon as they are released by rebels you can declare war on them from the beginning to reclaim your core and, if you have claims, then you can get even more provinces. I could have diplo-annexed I suppose but I had enough admin points so I figured I would just take the provinces.

 

[Viperswhip]

I think its fine to just let Bulgaria be released. As soon as they are released by rebels you can declare war on them from the beginning to reclaim your core and, if you have claims, then you can get even more provinces. I could have diplo-annexed I suppose but I had enough admin points so I figured I would just take the provinces.

Well, I like to catch and release because it's easier, you have enough wars to get involved with, and now with rebels spawning all over the place it's easier to take fewer provinces from the Ottos and instead vassal feed, so Bulgaria and Karaman. Like fighting the Mamluks you take and release Syria, and on and on.

Different strokes and all that.

 

[Lapsed Pacifist]

Is there any point to breaking Athens' vassalisation anymore, or should I just keep them?

 

[defendurname]

Well, I like to catch and release because it's easier, you have enough wars to get involved with, and now with rebels spawning all over the place it's easier to take fewer provinces from the Ottos and instead vassal feed, so Bulgaria and Karaman. Like fighting the Mamluks you take and release Syria, and on and on.

Different strokes and all that.

Your way is probably more efficient. I just like annexing rather than diplo-annexing: a part of me still finds it incredibly gamey and cheaty despite the fact that this is a game and Byzantine 1444 start requires you to be gamey

 

[Ranjid]

Is there any point to breaking Athens' vassalisation anymore, or should I just keep them?

It's an easy way to get Cyprus and/Rhodes, since they'll eventually ally. You can bypass the guarantees that way.

 

[Viperswhip]

Is there any point to breaking Athens' vassalisation anymore, or should I just keep them?

Break it during a war with the Otto's, early in the war even, then just annex them, they have no claims on land that isn't yours to begin with, useless vassal.

 

[zpln]

What do you guys take in the first war?
After some attempts yesterday (sometimes the ottomans didn't even take their army back to anatolia and just wiped me out directly after albania) I finally suceeded with the galley spam tactic and conquered their whole european parts.
I wasn't sure what peace may be the best and just took my cores and Sofia from them.
After this war they keept upgrading an army in Edirne until it was a 24-death stack with a brilliant general - my force limit was at 16 and I was lagging behind in tech.
They declared war with the goal to get Sofia back and totally ruined my country hmy: My Polish ally not just jumped out of the alliance, they even gave the crimeans military access...

Should I have taken more in the first war? Or are there any other possibilities to weaken the ottos more in a first victory?

 

[Ceranai]

What do you guys take in the first war?
After some attempts yesterday (sometimes the ottomans didn't even take their army back to anatolia and just wiped me out directly after albania) I finally suceeded with the galley spam tactic and conquered their whole european parts.
I wasn't sure what peace may be the best and just took my cores and Sofia from them.
After this war they keept upgrading an army in Edirne until it was a 24-death stack with a brilliant general - my force limit was at 16 and I was lagging behind in tech.
They declared war with the goal to get Sofia back and totally ruined my country hmy: My Polish ally not just jumped out of the alliance, they even gave the crimeans military access...

Should I have taken more in the first war? Or are there any other possibilities to weaken the ottos more in a first victory?

sounds like you were unlucky. if you want to make sure that they stay down wait till their war exhaustion hits 10 or so. given the stupidly long truces ow you don't lose that much if you hold all of bulgaria and greece for a few years, even if you get the call for peace they will gain exhaustion faster than you and its important to keep them down given that the ottomans are public enemy number one two and three

 

[Zak Preston]

Dudes, I've started a new round with Castile Byzantium, and I have a slight problem ATM: can't spawn any Orthodox rebel =\

• Fully unlocked Humanism ideas, tolerance to heretics +0.7
• Have around 60% Orthodox territories, low unrest (5-10%)
• Dropped Stability to -2 (poor my ADM points)
• Tried to convert non-cored Orthodox territory
• Turned missionary slider to 0, 10%... 30%... 50% and so on

Not even a single percent chance of Orthodox rebel spawn...

 

[zyphial]

I did the galley spam tactic. Spammed galleys until I was way over forcelimits, waited for Ottomans to get into war (I was lucky and their fleet took a hit against the Mamuluks), get an admiral and kill one of their trade fleets ASAP and then blockade the strait. THey should hopefully have moved all their troops to their maindland so you can siege away and retake all your Greek Orthodox cores. If lucky you can get them to either release Bulgaria or let the Bulgarian rebels enforce their demands and then declare war on Bulgaria afterwards. After that just keep a strong naval fleet (which shouldn;t be hard because the AI is terrible at rebuilding fleets) and the Ottomans won't be a problem especially with your new Austrian and Polish allies.

I agree but I took a simpler approach.

While the above is probably more efficient than anything I threw together, I found that all you really need to do is build up galleys, make friends with poland (they wont help you until you are stronger than them, but the Ottomans are afraid of into space), sucker punch the Ottoman fleet, then land grab as much land as you can while your fleet docked at Constantinople pops out just long enough to deny the straight. I actually failed to reach parity with the Ottos fleet even after the sucker punch, but that didn't matter since they could never catch the straight blockers. I also opted to forget releasing countries, and just opted to eat it all and core it the slow way. It hurts your power points... but then you westernize around 1490 (I think someone else pointed this out too) and suddenly those lost tech points stop mattering. I eventually wound up making best friends with Serbia, Warachia is my loyal march, Poland has never been outside of an alliance with me, and until Austria attacked Serbia, we were close.

Turks were out of Europe by 1500 and will be out of Anatolia by 1600.

The ONLY mistake I made was not getting Chios. Find a way to get Chios, or it's a nightmare. It's WW3 right now because I want Chios and Genoa is part of the Empire. Thankfully the 80YW procced and put mr "I-like-to-spank-France-repeatedly" Austria on it's knees... and about six months later, somebody decided 30 was a prettier number than 80. All in all, I think this was the best time to play byz, because AoW has just been an awesome experience. Finally the german region explodes into a flurry of activity, and the empire quakes! I've wanted this since EU3!!!