[1.8.1] Getting My China On - Suggestions?

[Manbearpig]

At first blush, I like the Manchu national ideas a bit better. A bit stronger on the military side, as well as that very, very nice -20% Core Creation Cost.

This used to be false, their last idea used to be something crazy like 100% or 300% manpower.

 

[ashmizen]

This used to be false, their last idea used to be something crazy like 100% or 300% manpower.

It was 100% manpower, and it made ZERO sense, for two reasons -

1. Ming would never use the Banner system, that's like the Americans getting an event to create a crusader order.

2. As the LAST idea, Ming gets it just about the same time that HISTORICALLY it was the WEAKEST militarily. So, in the beginning you are gimped for manpower, when historically Ming was super strong. And later, you have the largest manpower boost in the game, just at the time Ming was about to FALL.

I think they should switch the first Ming idea with their last, so they can get their 50% manpower boost to counteract their 50% LA manpower.

 

[Incompetent]

It was 100% manpower, and it made ZERO sense, for two reasons -

1. Ming would never use the Banner system, that's like the Americans getting an event to create a crusader order.

2. As the LAST idea, Ming gets it just about the same time that HISTORICALLY it was the WEAKEST militarily. So, in the beginning you are gimped for manpower, when historically Ming was super strong. And later, you have the largest manpower boost in the game, just at the time Ming was about to FALL.

I think they should switch the first Ming idea with their last, so they can get their 50% manpower boost to counteract their 50% LA manpower.

NIs always represent a country's strengths. With countries that historically collapsed during the EU period, I think the idea behind the later ideas is a counterfactual 'what would it have taken for them to survive?' So we have to imagine a Ming that somehow saw off the Manchu threat, but was shaken out of its complacency by this great barbarian invasion and became more militaristic as a result.

The name is silly, though.

 

[Landwalker]

Welp, 70 years in and going strong (or at least it seems like I am)! Went with the Yeren start, which was pretty tough and had a few hurdles I didn't anticipate. I didn't realize I would have to reform my government before taking the Unite the Jurchen Tribes decision in order to get the Muslim tech benefits, and I didn't realize that if I stayed at peace for too long, I'd start popping out pretender rebels every 4-6 months (or less). Nevertheless, Yeren grew, and its Manchuria successor continues to flourish:

Spoiler

In the picture, Korea, Mongolia, and Buryatia are my vassals, as well.

I've completed the Administrative ideas (of course), and am finally coming up on unlocking my second idea group. I'm not sure what to end up going with on this one, though. Influence was my initial preference, but I'm wondering whether or not it might be better to pick up Exploration or Trade, or even a non-DIP idea group entirely. I feel like I can skimp on the MIL ideas for a while, but I could see picking up Humanist, for example (and if I don't pick it up next, it'll almost certainly be Idea Group #3).

I'd like to get Exploration eventually in order to get my Siberian colonization going, but I don't know how pressing that is—Muscovy's getting kicked around pretty hard, but I don't know if I still need to concern myself with cutting them off. They've taken six total ideas, so they've unlocked their second national idea—still a long way to go before they reach the Siberian Frontier at NI #5.

For additional context, my near-term plan is a war with the Oirat to force-feed as much as I can to Mongolia before diplo-annexing them. By then, my truce with Ming (I've already taken Beijing) will have expired and I will hopefully be able to beat up on them for another handful of provinces in northern China—I'm trying to get all the provinces I need in order to take the Repair the Great Wall decision, and also want to take the Construct the Forbidden City decision before I switch over to Qing. Korea's going to get diplo-annexed at some point, but I don't know when that's going to be, or if it should even precede annexing a well-fed Mongolia.

Thoughts from the ever-useful peanut gallery?


P.S. That Burgundy.

 

[ParadogsGamer]

Interesting thread Landwalker. Lot's of good points and ideas.
I have started the Achievement run myself to form Qing and I must say it's really not that hard and I expect to carve through Ming when I get to that point.
But it's pretty fun in any case.
There is a separate thread in the AAR forum for it: Link
Also direct link to the playthrough in my sig

I didn't know about the Yeren start though. Definitely something to consider if you are going to play on after the achievement - which is what you do.

 

[petrewon]

I played both Ming and Qing. Playing as Manchu is pretty fun as there are much more things to do than Ming. As Ming, the main goal is to westernize asap, so exploration for first idea and island hop to africa or central america. Diplo vassalised neighbours peacefully and try to avoid war as much as possible. Ming manpower is too low and recover slowly. Once it is westernize, the income is insane and all the asian and indian nations can be steam roll over easily.

As Qing, I played as Jianzhou. Ally Ming and wait for opportunity to attack the weakest opponent (Yeren). I will attack when they are in another war. Once form Manchu, I break alliance and attack Ming for Beijing. I managed to get Beijing and some northern provinces from Ming. I attacked Ming when I saw there were many of rebellion taking place. Dali and Shun were formed from these rebellions. The second war, I managed to vassalised Ming whole. Actually Ming is easy to vassalise, coz the autonomy actually half the province cost for me. But it will take at least 4000 dip points to integrate Ming 50 years later.

 

[ParadogsGamer]

I played both Ming and Qing. Playing as Manchu is pretty fun as there are much more things to do than Ming. As Ming, the main goal is to westernize asap, so exploration for first idea and island hop to africa or central america. Diplo vassalised neighbours peacefully and try to avoid war as much as possible. Ming manpower is too low and recover slowly. Once it is westernize, the income is insane and all the asian and indian nations can be steam roll over easily.

As Qing, I played as Jianzhou. Ally Ming and wait for opportunity to attack the weakest opponent (Yeren). I will attack when they are in another war. Once form Manchu, I break alliance and attack Ming for Beijing. I managed to get Beijing and some northern provinces from Ming. I attacked Ming when I saw there were many of rebellion taking place. Dali and Shun were formed from these rebellions. The second war, I managed to vassalised Ming whole. Actually Ming is easy to vassalise, coz the autonomy actually half the province cost for me. But it will take at least 4000 dip points to integrate Ming 50 years later.

I just finished the achievement and the easiest part of it was nailing Ming
I remember back in the days when Ming was feared. Back when Prawnstar was around to show you how to take them down. Now it's just like scratching you head.

 

[Denkt]

I think the ai has large problems handeling Ming because of the faction system, a player would just store some point to be able to quickly swap factions in emergency, also a player Ming would be able to keep all dangerous nations weak which an ai Ming don't do.
A player Ming also know the value of westernization, making the country many many times more powerful.