1.5 Conquest Attempt, France or England

[jecjackal]

Hi Folks,

I was curious what everyone's opinions were on a WC attempt with either France or England. I'm waiting for 1.5 before I start s I have a little bit of time. For Reference, Here are the countries Ideas


Idea: #England #France
Starting: #+5% Trade Efficiency #+20% Manpower
#+20% Morale of Navies #+2 Diplomatic Relations
1st: #+10% Heavy Ship Combat #+10% Income From Vassals
#+0.25 Navy Tradition #
2nd #+15% National Tax #+20% Army Morale
# #+2% Morale Recover Speed
3rd #+ 2 Diplomatic Relations #+10% National Tax
4th #+10% Light Ship Combat #Native Attacks are reduced
#+10% Trade Income #
5th #-1 National Revolt Risk #+30% Fort Defense
6th #+10% Discipline #-10% Tech cost
7th #-25 Naval Attrition #+2 Tolerance Heretic, +2 Tolerance Heathen
Bonus #+33% Embargo Efficiency #+10% Discipline


From the looks of things, Both countries ideas have a fair amount of fluff (i.e, not particularly useful ideas for a WC).

The ship ideas from England are not particularly helpful. If you are England and win the HYW, your navy should pretty much be No.1. The embargo efficiency is also not really exciting.

However France has the income from vassals, Native Attacks and Fort Defense. These aren't great but the rest of France's ideas are fairly good (+manpower, morale) and could allow you to delay taking military ideas.



So the big question is, does winning the HYW as England give you a big enough boost to outweigh having slightly worse ideas for a WC? Thoughts?

Thanks,

Jec


sigh, spaces aren't saved..... I had a really decent table but spaces aren't saved...

 

[Alerias]

Through winning the HYW, England gets the significant advantage of locking down a competing colonizer. That's a fairly huge bonus, quite frankly, you only need to focus on the Iberians afterwards. If you went on to achieve something like this quickly enough, you'd be guaranteed to have no competition whatsoever overseas, and PU'd French troops would gladly help you in Iberia to make this happen. This makes it a superior choice if you want to conquer the world. (Provided you can win the HYW, it's entirely doable but not trivial)

You'll want to vassalize several Electors to eventually become HRE, integrate France, capture Judea/Mecca if you can get the missions, colonize away, and then nibble at everything everywhere.

France can absolutely WC too, but they have one more major colonial power peeing in their cheerios, forcing you to wage a bunch of colonial wars. And unlike the Iberians, you can't possibly deprive England of ports.

 

[lordelenath]

I'd say GB > France, provided winning the HYW doesn't become a lot more difficult in 1.5 - from the look of things it does, because you won't be able to get in Castille or Austria any longer. If it's still doable with reasonable effort, I'd say they're the better choice. Although overall it seems to me that WC is going to be more difficult in 1.5 again. The only benefit will be the transferred subjects on diplomatic annexation, while on the bad side you'll have to face: more AE, no Horde protectorates, colonial nations in the Americas only forming out of cored provinces/only taking cored provinces and subjects declaring for independence.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

I'd say GB > France, provided winning the HYW doesn't become a lot more difficult in 1.5 - from the look of things it does, because you won't be able to get in Castille or Austria any longer. If it's still doable with reasonable effort, I'd say they're the better choice. Although overall it seems to me that WC is going to be more difficult in 1.5 again. The only benefit will be the transferred subjects on diplomatic annexation, while on the bad side you'll have to face: more AE, no Horde protectorates, colonial nations in the Americas only forming out of cored provinces/only taking cored provinces and subjects declaring for independence.

More AE is nothing if not for coalition war score being broken. Unfortunately, it is broken, so beating more gives you less. That is going to be, by far, the most serious barrier to WC in 1.5 over 1.4.

 

[jecjackal]

Thanks for the feedback guys. I did manage to win the HYW as England in 1.3. Basically it amounted to hiring a bunch of mercs and hitting the french from the see with my entire stack versus a smaller stack. It wasn't too hard. If i do go english, hopefull good ole Henry VI can kick the bucket soon

 

[AnonHobo]

Thanks for the feedback guys. I did manage to win the HYW as England in 1.3. Basically it amounted to hiring a bunch of mercs and hitting the french from the see with my entire stack versus a smaller stack. It wasn't too hard. If i do go english, hopefull good ole Henry VI can kick the bucket soon

England is superior imho because you can get to Novgorod easily and peal away a province or two while MOS is kicking NOVs face in. You can establish a Presence in the Eastern Baltic very quickly and stop MOS.

In my current attempt I have MOS and the Iberians stopped by 1501.

Draw back? You have a crap ruler which sets you back a bit in monarch points and also slow coring time.

 

[Korashy]

Since vassals will always buy your cores now, Ottomans into HRE and reverse vassal feed. If you are down to only constantinople, you can get any culture as accepted super quickly and core in under 1 year.

 

[jecjackal]

England is superior imho because you can get to Novgorod easily and peal away a province or two while MOS is kicking NOVs face in. You can establish a Presence in the Eastern Baltic very quickly and stop MOS.

In my current attempt I have MOS and the Iberians stopped by 1501.

Draw back? You have a crap ruler which sets you back a bit in monarch points and also slow coring time.

What makes England have an easier time at Novogrod than France? Wouldn't I have to use loans, or embargo CB with either nation to attack Novogrod?

Thanks.