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jdrou said:
my last hope is, that they will make EU3 after Doomsday.
b/c this should include many Vic features, like a deeper people , policy and economic model and if they were really nice, they should include the timeframe of Vic.
the only problem could be planes, but they dont appear until WW2 in an important size, so it should be like that.
what i want to say is, EU3 should be a mixture of the timeframe and the best features of EU2 and Vic. for MP-games its perfect, cause of the freedom of making history, in HOI its just a war strategy game, almost no room for diplomacy and ahistorical things, except the war outcome.
the thing i hate most is this pop-micromanaging. its horrible to play a Great power, cause if u r forced to put out the optimum its annoying to deal with all these pops (if i imagine to play a MP with many professional players and no break button). and i am sure, its not possible to change this in a patch. if they would at least do that, i could live with the diplomacy and economy model and wait until EU3 which i guess would have many vic features.
these pop thing is the reason why i deinstalled Vic 2-3 times, but my love for this empire building let me reinstalled it after a few months of break each time
i just pray for big EU-VIc game.
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Raul said:my last hope is, that they will make EU3 after Doomsday.
b/c this should include many Vic features, like a deeper people , policy and economic model and if they were really nice, they should include the timeframe of Vic.
the only problem could be planes, but they dont appear until WW2 in an important size, so it should be like that.
what i want to say is, EU3 should be a mixture of the timeframe and the best features of EU2 and Vic. for MP-games its perfect, cause of the freedom of making history, in HOI its just a war strategy game, almost no room for diplomacy and ahistorical things, except the war outcome.
the thing i hate most is this pop-micromanaging. its horrible to play a Great power, cause if u r forced to put out the optimum its annoying to deal with all these pops (if i imagine to play a MP with many professional players and no break button). and i am sure, its not possible to change this in a patch. if they would at least do that, i could live with the diplomacy and economy model and wait until EU3 which i guess would have many vic features.
these pop thing is the reason why i deinstalled Vic 2-3 times, but my love for this empire building let me reinstalled it after a few months of break each time
i just pray for big EU-VIc game.
me and my friends are playing mutliplayer pretty often and we use the pause button quite often
Raul said:my last hope is, that they will make EU3 after Doomsday.
b/c this should include many Vic features, like a deeper people , policy and economic model and if they were really nice, they should include the timeframe of Vic.
the only problem could be planes, but they dont appear until WW2 in an important size, so it should be like that.
what i want to say is, EU3 should be a mixture of the timeframe and the best features of EU2 and Vic. for MP-games its perfect, cause of the freedom of making history, in HOI its just a war strategy game, almost no room for diplomacy and ahistorical things, except the war outcome.
the thing i hate most is this pop-micromanaging. its horrible to play a Great power, cause if u r forced to put out the optimum its annoying to deal with all these pops (if i imagine to play a MP with many professional players and no break button). and i am sure, its not possible to change this in a patch. if they would at least do that, i could live with the diplomacy and economy model and wait until EU3 which i guess would have many vic features.
these pop thing is the reason why i deinstalled Vic 2-3 times, but my love for this empire building let me reinstalled it after a few months of break each time
i just pray for big EU-VIc game.
I think EU3 should be a mixture of the timeframe and the best features of EU2, Vic and HOI2s, that way we could also have planes and nukes. An EU3 with EU, Vic, HOIs mixture would be great and I would buy it even for 100 bucks.
Yes.
An "Only Strategy Game You Ever Need" would be amazing. The simplicity and fun of EU2, the depth of Victoria, and the wars of HOI...*drools*
-Matt
To add my voice to the others here
Though I see your dream, in real life these 2 are just too contradictory. Doesn't mean I don't want to see Vicky 2 or a Vickyesque game in the EU2 timeframe, thoughTheLoneTaco said:
Jayavarman said:
For a company like Paradox it is not impossible though difficult. They can make such a game provided we are willing to buy it at a price attractive to them. I can't say for others but I am willing to pay even $ 100.00 for such a game. And if they make such a game it WILL sell in a large volume.
If Victoria didn't sell well (I have no real knowledge of this, but it seems that way), why should Victoria 2 sell well?
I guess the customer base has grown a bit through the other games, but is it enough?
I guess the customer base has grown a bit through the other games, but is it enough?
Looking at it simplistically and assuming this was possible or even desired, your are asking for a merger of three different time periods and three different ways of playing. That is 3 x 3 = 9 times the work for Paradox. $100? That would scare off even a hardcore gamer, who would already be repulsed about compressing so much timeperiod and material into one game, let alone not be enough compensation for Paradox and be a huge gamble. You are asking for Paradox's financial and creative ruin.Martial-law said:
If you want a game based on broad history, go play Civilization. IIRC, they have tanks and spears in the same game.
u r right jayavarman (more or less), but let us dream
even in case it was possible to make a game like this, economically it would be a bad deal for paradox. It would be the perfect empirebuilding game and paradox would have been unemployed for the next 10 years or if the demand is great, they could retire and spend their millions of bucks
but i go with martiallaw, i would also pay 100 to 150 bucks for this game, cause no need for other games anymore for the next decade, so i would save much much money
and to relativize my criticism before. After my last break (had 2-3 before, this one was for almost 1 year) i reinstalled it again, a few days ago, and now as i start to learn the game again and deeper as i knew before,i start to love this game more than before and the more, i love this game, the more i desire a new better Vic
and this Civ4 stuff u mentioned before, i have this game, i am playing it (pbem), but its still just a kiddie game (like the Civ3) for me and i ask myself, why i payed 40 bucks for it.
even in case it was possible to make a game like this, economically it would be a bad deal for paradox. It would be the perfect empirebuilding game and paradox would have been unemployed for the next 10 years or if the demand is great, they could retire and spend their millions of bucks
but i go with martiallaw, i would also pay 100 to 150 bucks for this game, cause no need for other games anymore for the next decade, so i would save much much money
and to relativize my criticism before. After my last break (had 2-3 before, this one was for almost 1 year) i reinstalled it again, a few days ago, and now as i start to learn the game again and deeper as i knew before,i start to love this game more than before and the more, i love this game, the more i desire a new better Vic
and this Civ4 stuff u mentioned before, i have this game, i am playing it (pbem), but its still just a kiddie game (like the Civ3) for me and i ask myself, why i payed 40 bucks for it.
One thing we could hope for would be something like the HoI: Doomsday expansion if that does well financially. Basically, we pay for Paradox to add new features to Victoria, without changing the core of the game.
Raul said:u r right jayavarman (more or less), but let us dream
even in case it was possible to make a game like this, economically it would be a bad deal for paradox. It would be the perfect empirebuilding game and paradox would have been unemployed for the next 10 years or if the demand is great, they could retire and spend their millions of bucks
but i go with martiallaw, i would also pay 100 to 150 bucks for this game, cause no need for other games anymore for the next decade, so i would save much much money
and to relativize my criticism before. After my last break (had 2-3 before, this one was for almost 1 year) i reinstalled it again, a few days ago, and now as i start to learn the game again and deeper as i knew before,i start to love this game more than before and the more, i love this game, the more i desire a new better Vic
and this Civ4 stuff u mentioned before, i have this game, i am playing it (pbem), but its still just a kiddie game (like the Civ3) for me and i ask myself, why i payed 40 bucks for it.
Raul, I dont think it would be a bad deal for Paradox and they would remain unemployed for "10" years.
The reason is there is always room for improvement and we are never satisfied with any game. Thats why we see sequals of the Civilization series, i.e. 1, 2, 3 and now 4! although even I ask myself why I spent 40 bucks for Civ 4, its really a very childish game. And they call it a "grand strategy" game. If Paradox makes the type of game I suggested it would even beat this so called "grand strategy" game and may sell even more that that. Then we would be requesting Paradox to add something, remove something, improve something and so on and so forth. Until we are there, the fan base is there, we will always want to play a better game than what we already have and would always have endless wishes for a next game. And then Paradox would release another sequal.
Jayavarman said:
Jayavarman,
As you stated "That is 3 x 3 = 9 times the work for Paradox", I think Paradox development team could find out a way to simplify and reduce this work, they know this better, and lets say even if they work 9 times, as you stated $ 100 would scare a hardcore gamer, what you think about $ 60 or $ 70? I think every Paradox fan would happily pay this price for such a grand game without being repulsed because they already know the taste of Paradox games and I think Paradox team would be wise enough to create such a game without making it too complicated, they could strike the right balance. That would not be a huge gamble for Paradox to make such a game but a calculated gamble because the taste of their games is well known and that would produce a game which would be able to compete with the Civilization series in terms of saleability, the game could sell even more that Civilization games I think and the compensation for Paradox would be great. It would not be Paradox's financial and creative ruin. We, especially the Paradox fan base, would not sit idle and just accept the game for the rest of our lives. There would be endless wishes for the next game "EU4", we would ask for more and that could make Paradox to create a Europa Universalis 4. This will not the the end of the world. This would be the beginning of another great game in the gaming world. Also the world is full of new ideas.
@Martial Law:
No, even if the new EU3-Vic2-Supergame would be that great jump, like it was from HOI 1.0 to HOII 1.0, and wouldnt need 3 patches to be playable, and even if it had a better graphic for the mainstream customers (i dont need it), it wouldnt ever beat Civilization (at leat not for the next 10 years).
Civilization is a giant. everyone knows it and the deepnes of paradoxgames is a big disadvantage for mass-sales. me for myself i am fan of the paradoxgames since EU II ( i bought EU II, HOI 1+2 and Vic) and EU II i found it by accidant, cause here in europe, or better say in the german speaking countries (AUT,GER) ppl hardly know it. Noone of my friends know the game, and i couldnt even win a new fan in these passed years, though i am still trying.
this is my opinion. For example EA Sports. Maybe they make good ice hockey and basketball games, i dont know these sports very well, but their football (soccer) games suck (if u prefer deepnes before nice graphics etc.). i know better and deeper and less bugged alternatives for years, but they had a long and hard way behind them (and also big partners like konami or sega)to challenge EA sports in the football (soccer) sector today, though there were already better 4-5 years ago and though konami and sega are giants too.
BUT!!!! on the other side, i u r right, its a hard way, but if paradox long term goal is to challenge Civilization, or even the whole Ego-shooter sector and want to change the whole gaming-society to win for deep and educational paradoxgames, then their only chance is to make a BIG BIG Game and (maybe even more) a good marketing startegy
No, even if the new EU3-Vic2-Supergame would be that great jump, like it was from HOI 1.0 to HOII 1.0, and wouldnt need 3 patches to be playable, and even if it had a better graphic for the mainstream customers (i dont need it), it wouldnt ever beat Civilization (at leat not for the next 10 years).
Civilization is a giant. everyone knows it and the deepnes of paradoxgames is a big disadvantage for mass-sales. me for myself i am fan of the paradoxgames since EU II ( i bought EU II, HOI 1+2 and Vic) and EU II i found it by accidant, cause here in europe, or better say in the german speaking countries (AUT,GER) ppl hardly know it. Noone of my friends know the game, and i couldnt even win a new fan in these passed years, though i am still trying.
this is my opinion. For example EA Sports. Maybe they make good ice hockey and basketball games, i dont know these sports very well, but their football (soccer) games suck (if u prefer deepnes before nice graphics etc.). i know better and deeper and less bugged alternatives for years, but they had a long and hard way behind them (and also big partners like konami or sega)to challenge EA sports in the football (soccer) sector today, though there were already better 4-5 years ago and though konami and sega are giants too.
BUT!!!! on the other side, i u r right, its a hard way, but if paradox long term goal is to challenge Civilization, or even the whole Ego-shooter sector and want to change the whole gaming-society to win for deep and educational paradoxgames, then their only chance is to make a BIG BIG Game and (maybe even more) a good marketing startegy
A lot of the problems of making a grand strategy game could be solved by increasing the mod-ability and options of the game. For example, some people would like to be able to conquer the world every game...well, let them! They paid $100 for the game! :^)
Options like, "diplomatic annexation - yes or no" would also be nice, and could ideally be turned on or off depending on the game period. In this way, by messing with a few small options, the same game could model very different periods without losing much believability.
While this game will never be made, I think the demand is out there. Look at Hive's AOI mod for EU2, for example. 1300~ to 1900~, if I recall correctly. Even if you start losing realism at the ends of the timeline, it is still fun to run around for 600 years :^)
-Matt
Options like, "diplomatic annexation - yes or no" would also be nice, and could ideally be turned on or off depending on the game period. In this way, by messing with a few small options, the same game could model very different periods without losing much believability.
While this game will never be made, I think the demand is out there. Look at Hive's AOI mod for EU2, for example. 1300~ to 1900~, if I recall correctly. Even if you start losing realism at the ends of the timeline, it is still fun to run around for 600 years :^)
-Matt
Modable games r the big futur, Matt, even Civ4 want to take it in his full programm and not just as an bonus.
Vicky forever - Doomsday never!
I'll admit that I am lazy about checking the Vicky thread these days (HOI2 is the current center off attention). But the moment 1.04 finally is out, HOI2 gets the boot and it is Vicky time again
I got into paradox via HOI1 and I must admit I will buy Doomsday, but in my heart of hearts Vicky is the deepest and best game that the good folks at Paradox came out with.
I'll admit that I am lazy about checking the Vicky thread these days (HOI2 is the current center off attention). But the moment 1.04 finally is out, HOI2 gets the boot and it is Vicky time again
I got into paradox via HOI1 and I must admit I will buy Doomsday, but in my heart of hearts Vicky is the deepest and best game that the good folks at Paradox came out with.