1.4 Beta - Friday 13th January Discussion Thread

[Denniss]

Please fix the string below from text.csv, religious conversion is by month and not by day.

POP_CONVERSION;§Y$NUM$§W people will convert to §Y$TYPE$§W each day;§Y$NUM$§W personnes seront converties §Y$TYPE$§W chaque jour;§Y$NUM$§W Menschen konvertieren täglich zur Religion: §Y$TYPE$§W;;§Y$NUM$§W persona(s) se convertirá(n) al §Y$TYPE$§W cada día;;;;;;;;;x

And please fix the dumb problem with Austria always declaring war on Denmark for Holstein - that's no region they'd ever go for unless they have taken over Germany.

The population counter shown in the top bar is still showing wrong growth rates as internal immigration is not subtracted from this value but those provs receiving internal immigration are counted-in.

Slider triggers are still working wrong or other factors are improperly set. Despite military spending at 50% soldier pops get a 5% chance to demote to farmers because of "military spending below 50%".

Officers are still spread over all provinces despite only used a calculation factor for leadership points. It would be far better to have them only in the state/region capitals, just like bureaucrats.

 

[Dyranum]

And please fix the dumb problem with Austria always declaring war on Denmark for Holstein - that's no region they'd ever go for unless they have taken over Germany.

There is nothing wrong with that. They did do so IRL.

 

[flame7926]

Not immediately, its the immediate need thats stupid.

 

[Denniss]

There's another minor data error, the literacy promotion factors for farmers promoting to aristocrats should be placed into a factor group, currently they are all listed separately.

 

[Rhyus]

I think dealing with bloated bureaucracies is a great facet to deal with when managing a nation at this time. It is part of the modernization process which you have to deal with, not something you can simply cap with no repercussions.

Max Weber might agree.

That said I'd love to have flavor events which deal with this problem when the Bureaucrats reach a certain level (mods could do this pretty easily I think) allowing you to attempt reform or to curb their influence/pop (through privatization or streamlining) as was historically tried, but in the end the more you move to a modern state and the more you expect your country to run "smoothly" (admin efficiency) this should be an outcome.

The government can put a cap on how many ppl it employs, why would you hire many more ppl than you need. Plus this way we could have full funding without bureaucrat numbers going crazy. As someone else has mentioned that you have to have funding at 5-10% just to keep it balanced at the cost of admin and crime efficiency which is not right imo

 

[Dichromate]

There is nothing wrong with that. They did do so IRL.

Not in 1836 they didn't.

 

[Denniss]

I'm currently testing a modification made to crat promotion to limit them somewhat. It has been added to all poptypes which have a promotion path to crats. It's not perfect but at least a beginning.

		group = {
			modifier = {
				factor = -1
				state_scope = { bureaucrats = 0.02 }
				crime_fighting = 0.6
			}
			modifier = {
				factor = -1
				state_scope = { bureaucrats = 0.03 }
				crime_fighting = 0.7
			}
			modifier = {
				factor = -1
				state_scope = { bureaucrats = 0.04 }
				crime_fighting = 0.8
			}
			modifier = {
				factor = -1
				state_scope = { bureaucrats = 0.05 }
				crime_fighting = 0.9
			}
		}

 

[Naselus]

I'm currently testing a modification made to crat promotion to limit them somewhat. It has been added to all poptypes which have a promotion path to crats. It's not perfect but at least a beginning.

		group = {
			modifier = {
				factor = -1
				state_scope = { bureaucrats = 0.02 }
				crime_fighting = 0.6
			}
			modifier = {
				factor = -1
				state_scope = { bureaucrats = 0.03 }
				crime_fighting = 0.7
			}
			modifier = {
				factor = -1
				state_scope = { bureaucrats = 0.04 }
				crime_fighting = 0.8
			}
			modifier = {
				factor = -1
				state_scope = { bureaucrats = 0.05 }
				crime_fighting = 0.9
			}
		}

Actually, it's better to have them in separate tables, with each 5% of crime fighting increasing crat chance by X, and each 0.1% of total population reducing it by X. But that depends on whether eliminating crat bloat is actually a good thing, which it arguably isn't.

Furthermore, this will simply result in bloating in another class, as we'll still have promotors. They'll simply have to pick another class to go into - probably Clergy, since everyone keeps ed spending at 100% to get the full lit increase.

A better approach to the over-infaltion of crats is not to introduce caps on Crats, but rather to increase promotion to Artisans. This gives an alternative promotion path to POPs moving into the middle class, who are currently funneled into Crathood. Consider:

Clergy have a hard cap.
Officers have a hard cap.
Clerks are not an option for farmers or labourers.
Aristocrats have a hard cap.

That leaves most POPs moving from poor to middle class the option of Crat or Artisan. They never chose Artisan, as there's a huge -20 malus on Arti promotion unless they have cash reserves (which most POPs don't, as they simply spend as much as possible on luxuries until the goods on the market run out). Hence, crat bloat.

Making Artisans the 'default' middle class POP choice, by increasing the chance of becoming an Arti when other middle class POP types are at their cap, will solve crat overbloat without eliminating crat bloat completely. Of course, then there's also the problem of Artisan mass-demotion to worry about, but that's a separate problem.

 

[kingsword]

I think there should be an option in game that lets you put a cap on a % of the population that you want max bureaucrats. In-fact i think you should be able to do this with any pop that the government employs ex. soldiers, clergy, officers ect

It was a highly voiced concern many months before the game was released because it'd be apparent that a single slider both funding and promoting pops is bound to run into such a situation. Now we have to deal with a rather awkward and unnecessary problem for government-employed pops. I was expecting a solution with the expansion, alas that seems to be something for Victoria 3.

And I believe one of the dev diaries will say something like "oh you know that slider problem from Vic 2, we fixed that". Well, that should have never been in the first place, first game had no such problem. Just put in an extra couple sliders that limit the percentage of population that you want to employ. Did the governments ever, anywhere, hired every single unemployed person when they applied for a job? It's totally absurd in the game and you need to micro-juggle sliders and still can't strike a balance. To save people from setting a couple of sliders once, now you have them theorize rocket science over one slider so that a quarter of population won't turn out to be doing NOTHING while getting paid from your coffers.

 

[Naveed]

The population counter shown in the top bar is still showing wrong growth rates as internal immigration is not subtracted from this value but those provs receiving internal immigration are counted-in.

+1

Please fix the population counter, it was working in the first versions of the game. It now only shows daily changes which is completely useless, we need monthly or yearly!!!!

 

[Rhyus]

It was a highly voiced concern many months before the game was released because it'd be apparent that a single slider both funding and promoting pops is bound to run into such a situation. Now we have to deal with a rather awkward and unnecessary problem for government-employed pops. I was expecting a solution with the expansion, alas that seems to be something for Victoria 3.

And I believe one of the dev diaries will say something like "oh you know that slider problem from Vic 2, we fixed that". Well, that should have never been in the first place, first game had no such problem. Just put in an extra couple sliders that limit the percentage of population that you want to employ. Did the governments ever, anywhere, hired every single unemployed person when they applied for a job? It's totally absurd in the game and you need to micro-juggle sliders and still can't strike a balance. To save people from setting a couple of sliders once, now you have them theorize rocket science over one slider so that a quarter of population won't turn out to be doing NOTHING while getting paid from your coffers.

Thats exactly what i was thinking, a slider bar to set % of population u want to employ would be perfect

 

[brycef]

Did the governments ever, anywhere, hired every single unemployed person when they applied for a job?

Ah, modern day Greece perhaps?

 

[kingsword]

Ah, you got me there! But the game isn't simulating modern day!

 

[parasxos]

Ah, modern day Greece perhaps?

As a Greek and unemployed person i think i find this post ......offensive and a trolling one....

 

[RedRalphWiggum]

Agreed. Stick to the topic at hand.

 

[brycef]

As a Greek and unemployed person i think i find this post ......offensive and a trolling one....

Apologies.

 

[Chaim Kaufmann]

Which is the last 1.4 patch? Does it include the priors or do I install the 2011 and then another (the 1/13/2012?) on top of that?