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I love these threads. All the tears make HoI3 a much more enjoyable game to play. Keep it up PI!

Your kind and the +1 bandwagon jumpers are the biggest waste of space on this board.

Riddle me this, do you really think flaming someone who doesn't share your view of the game will actually accomplish anything but showing everyone what a douche you are and most likely destroy the thread?

If you don't have anything useful to say then keep your mouth shut.
 

sam73

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QFT

Whatever complaints I have about Paradox, the way they run their forums isn't one of them. They put with a lot of criticism and their moderators have been more than fair with me.

Indeed, but gunter_viezenz was refering to the fact that prospective customers do not have access to the tech support forum, where the issues posted are usually more factual, and therefore more credible. Many of the complains in the open forum can be discarded as matters of opinion.
 

Kallocain

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Blue emu how do you feel about paradox saying they need to hire full time professional beta testers for Vic 2, and in this way communicatiing the beta team you where a part of for hoi3 did not do a good enough job.

I was not here during the HoI3 beta, but I have worked in game development for some time, and these two forms of beta testing are excellent supplements to each other. The professional beta testers will look more into the technical aspects, computer configurations and performance.

How to improve a game regarding fun and balance are better left to the people who enjoy the game and eventually want to play the best game possible, i.e. testers from the forum.
 

Kovax

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I'm still impressed with what Paradox "attempted" to do with this game, and PARTS of it work amazingly well, but there are other aspects which don't work well (poorly, or not at all), and even stranger ones which sometimes work, and sometimes don't.

SOMETIMES, my supply system is inextricably linked to those of my allies (leaving the faction leader with a surplus of "free" supplies while the other faction members starve in their own capitals), other games they remain independent.

Some games, the war with France goes "normally"; other times, Paris ends up surrounded by over 100 brigades of troops, but the German AI refuses to take the city, even after 2 years. If some other country triggers "Vichy" instead, or if some other country takes the SU or GE, there really needs to be some check to see who is occupying the capital. If it's the EXPECTED attacker, run the "special event", if not, use the NORMAL surrender mechanisms instead. It makes no sense when the UK takes over GE, for example, and the US is somehow given all of Germany, especially if the US is not at war, or even in the Axis.

Strategic bombing with ONE air unit can reduce a medium sized country's industry and supply stockpiles to all but 0, leaving JUST enough to fly a single bomber group to do the same to the opponent. Meanwhile, AAA evaporates in a couple of days, in spite of the slight "easing" of this in the 1.4 patch (AAA took almost NO damage from strategic bombing, historically, since it was located AROUND the target, not IN). I had one game where the SCW turned into a permanent stalemate (not a single province changed hands in over 2 years), due to just such a case of mutual annihilation.

There should be NO reason why GE or UK (or IT and FR) should have any interest in competing with the SU for Sinkaing province (Japan might, but for some reason, they generally seem to be more interested in influencing Belgium or Finland instead). Most games, there's a multi-year tug-of-war over the place, between all three factions. Politically, there should be no reason why the US would "run for protection" to the Allies when Japan's antics in China start to increase its Threat on the US. There is even LESS reason why Australia should run to the Axis in the same situation.

In over 10 "starts", I have yet to see a game reach a point where an East-West confrontation occurs between GE and SU. In EVERY case, something has gone irrecoverably wrong with the game, leading to either a total "walkover" or a complete breakdown in playability. FR totally abandoning the Maginot Line, GE leaving a single division to garrison the entire Russian Front, launching and "stoking" unsupportable foreign or amphibious invasions (or squashing ONE partisan in a remote province with 30+ divisions) until there's nothing left to defend the home front, and other blatantly unbelievable things have occurred in EVERY game so far, with every patch.

About all I can do to enjoy "parts" of the game is to pick an isolated corner of the world and just "go for it" until the AI does something to completely break the game. Otherwise, the only way I can make it play either historically or even "rationally" is to play Germany and use every diplomatic trick in the book, plus an occasional reload and "fix" of another country, to keep it "on a believable track", whether "historical" or not. Even that hasn't gotten the game past around '41 without something else degenerating into absurdity or a total game crash.
 

gunter_viezenz

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The problem is you can attack from an ally ground but enemy cant attack.

In the Bolshevik-Polish war, the Poles did the exact same thing. They had a treaty with Rumania that allowed Poland to base and move troops inside of Rumania. Result was Polish forces counterattacking a Bolshevik advance coming out of Rumania taking the enemy by surprise.

Similair scenario with Cambodia and Loas during the American Vietnam war, where American troops were not allowed to persue enemy forces into Cambodia and Loas.

~IRL it has something to do with crossing a nations border with your army is a decleration of war. So they would not be able to go across the border unless they are at war with your ally, unless they declare war on them first.
 
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Guys, guys, Paradox simply sucks at making games, all their games are the same, Europa Universalis, HoI, and so on, same old boring method. Just Paradox get you fingers out of the ass and try to release a proper game !
 

finyou2

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Guys, guys, Paradox simply sucks at making games, all their games are the same, Europa Universalis, HoI, and so on, same old boring method. Just Paradox get you fingers out of the ass and try to release a proper game !

May I ask what kind of game are you talking about?
 

telesien

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I see here some interesting contradictions.
-People argue that the AI in HoI3 is stupid
-People agree that war against USA was a japanese big mistake
-People want japan AI to fight against USA


Now that does sound to me like strange set of requests ;)
 

RickN

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I see here some interesting contradictions.
-People argue that the AI in HoI3 is stupid
-People agree that war against USA was a japanese big mistake
-People want japan AI to fight against USA


Now that does sound to me like strange set of requests ;)

I understand what you're saying, but the AI making bad decisions isn't really my problem (IRL, Barbarossa was a bad decision, for example). The AI making bad decisions based on no input other than the date is my problem.

Germany declaring on Poland at the same time every game no matter what the military situation is. Japan declaring on Shanxi and China on the first day possible, no matter what the military situation is. Vichy France joining the Allies and going to war with Germany less than a month after the fall of France -- a historic impossibility.

The Pacific War never happens because the game is designed that way.
1 - Crude oil doesn't matter in the game, so Japan does not need to conquer the NEI and nearby areas to get more.
2 - Since Japan doesn't need to go get oil (or anything else) in areas of American interest, Japan and America will never be in conflict.
3 - Since Japan and America will never be in conflict, there is no reason for Japan to prepare to fight the US so they never build a significant navy.

So, simply adding an event that forces Pearl Harbor does not work. Japan has to have a reason in 1936-37 to be concerned about fighting the US and the AI has to dedicate IC toward that concern. IRL, the decision for war was a bad one but it was one that was brought about by the events of the day (decade?). Those events are purposefully left out of HOI3 so the no-Pacific-War decision is essentially hardcoded into the game and will never happen.
 

Von Uber

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But people were happy in HOI2 with the Danzig or War event happening at the same time everytime regardless.
 

Dan77

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I'm beginning to wonder if this game will ever be playable. Paradox is NOT michelangelo painting the sistine chapel so Hoi3 should not take four years to finish like it took to finish that church. The patches are making the game worse to the point that I feel that repairing this title may be beyond their programming capabilities. The hearts of Iron series to me is the Windows 98 of the gaming industry and I will be willing to bet that "Semper Fi" will be the Windows 98se of the gaming industry.

Paradox - do you care how disappointed we are???

If you do care, Semper Fi should be offered for free to all current owners of HO3 out of common decency.

i just dont agree. its not a very well written rant either. the game is absolutely playable. worth the money. its about overall entertainment. you pay 50 for dragon age and finish it in 3 days. i have had more fun with this one. and at least pi is making an effort.
 

Daelyn75

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i just dont agree. its not a very well written rant either. the game is absolutely playable. worth the money. its about overall entertainment. you pay 50 for dragon age and finish it in 3 days. i have had more fun with this one. and at least pi is making an effort.

Three days? Did you sleep? It took me eight days to finish it, and I wasn't working, or doing much of anything else. By the end I had nearly 80 hours put into it. All the DLC, all the side missions, quests, and read all the lore.

Three days? Thats no sleep for nearly 80 hours, so you didn't do everything . . .
 

Cainrae

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Guys, guys, Paradox simply sucks at making games, all their games are the same, Europa Universalis, HoI, and so on, same old boring method. Just Paradox get you fingers out of the ass and try to release a proper game !

Him having a Danish flag has is avatar hurts my national unity -5 :(

A wild guess would be that he expected Europa Univeralis and HoI to be like Age of Empires only to rage quit after trying to manage the economy and military. Kiddy, this is where the grown ups play, go back to Call of Duty :p
 

unmerged(148761)

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In the Bolshevik-Polish war, the Poles did the exact same thing. They had a treaty with Rumania that allowed Poland to base and move troops inside of Rumania. Result was Polish forces counterattacking a Bolshevik advance coming out of Rumania taking the enemy by surprise.

Similair scenario with Cambodia and Loas during the American Vietnam war, where American troops were not allowed to persue enemy forces into Cambodia and Loas.

~IRL it has something to do with crossing a nations border with your army is a decleration of war. So they would not be able to go across the border unless they are at war with your ally, unless they declare war on them first.

Agreed, but what silly thing with the game is that you can operate planes and ships in neutral territory with no fear of retaliation. For instance bringing Portugal into the Axis as Germany and using their colonies as untouchable submarine and air bases. You can even launch a Pacific U-Boat War from Macau or Siam.
 

unmerged(71032)

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But people were happy in HOI2 with the Danzig or War event happening at the same time everytime regardless.

Heh, I was wondering when someone brings this argument. :D

True, HoI2 had exactly the same mechanics of AI acting - it was just taking option A of events, usually 95% of the time (or more if set as such), no matter the actual situation.

Thing is - usually, AI was also set (via AI scripts) to prepare for such historical set of events. It made it very prone for clever human player exploits, but was also satisfying for the players that settled for moderately "historical" gameplay, with only slight variations from the events we know from 40'ties.

In HoI3, it seems that AI is set to be more flexible (against possible player exploits), but at the same time, this works againts whole prodding with decisions/events to do the historical stuff.
 
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1. Any ship I build takes MP from my pool as usual, But, if I decide to cancel those ships, no MP is returned(only ships are affected by this, every type). Saved my game and restarted that save as the US, cancelled the ships the AI was already building and MP was returned to pool, decided to qeue up 10 BB's and cancel, no MP returned. WTF is going on? Every ship the the AI builds as any country will get MP back if cancelled, If I decide to play as any of those countries and build ships, no MP is returned when cancelled. I looked into the save file itself and noticed that every ship the AI builds shows how much MP is required, but every ship I build shows 0.000 required, WTF?

I'm quoting myself here, just to bring up the subject again.

Can anyone give independent confirmation of this? Ie. Build 10 CV's or BB's while taking note of how much MP is used from your pool, then cancel those builds and see if any of that MP is returned. (Btw, checksum is DXEP) If possible, make a save and check the MP on those same builds.

Something else I noticed is that El Salvador has the Naval Bomber technology, surely that's not WAD, right?
 

Lord Strange

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Guys, guys, Paradox simply sucks at making games, all their games are the same, Europa Universalis, HoI, and so on, same old boring method. Just Paradox get you fingers out of the ass and try to release a proper game !

Really. Which is why som many people are deluded and continue to buy them. Makes sense......


Back to the thread point, yes I agree HOI3 has been a disappointment, butthe again, HOI2 fans asked for a massive amunts of improvements, and Paradox listnened, and bit off more they could chew. I believe they will perfect hsi game, even if Johan ends up living in a basement and eating moss, he will work on the game. I do hope Semper Fi ends up less buggy on release though. We will see.
 

unmerged(133545)

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Guys, guys, Paradox simply sucks at making games, all their games are the same, Europa Universalis, HoI, and so on, same old boring method. Just Paradox get you fingers out of the ass and try to release a proper game !

Don't play them then, get another game - the reason Paradox games are 'similar' is because they have found their niche - anyway, they are expanding by publishing other devs games,
 

David29

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Paradox - do you care how disappointed we are???

"We"? Don't be so quick to presume that you speak on behalf of everyone. Yes, there are people that are disappointed - and in my opinion they bought the game with their expectations too high (a game of this complexity is destined to be problematic) - but there are many more people who enjoy the game, including myself.
 

Von Lippe

Second Lieutenant
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Jun 11, 2004
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Misconceptions

I understand what you're saying, but the AI making bad decisions isn't really my problem (IRL, Barbarossa was a bad decision, for example). The AI making bad decisions based on no input other than the date is my problem.

Germany declaring on Poland at the same time every game no matter what the military situation is. Japan declaring on Shanxi and China on the first day possible, no matter what the military situation is. Vichy France joining the Allies and going to war with Germany less than a month after the fall of France -- a historic impossibility.

The Pacific War never happens because the game is designed that way.
1 - Crude oil doesn't matter in the game, so Japan does not need to conquer the NEI and nearby areas to get more.
2 - Since Japan doesn't need to go get oil (or anything else) in areas of American interest, Japan and America will never be in conflict.
3 - Since Japan and America will never be in conflict, there is no reason for Japan to prepare to fight the US so they never build a significant navy.

So, simply adding an event that forces Pearl Harbor does not work. Japan has to have a reason in 1936-37 to be concerned about fighting the US and the AI has to dedicate IC toward that concern. IRL, the decision for war was a bad one but it was one that was brought about by the events of the day (decade?). Those events are purposefully left out of HOI3 so the no-Pacific-War decision is essentially hardcoded into the game and will never happen.

Most of the comments in this (and other similar threads) overlook one very basic point: THERE IS NO AI. "Artificial Intelligence" means a computer that makes its own decisions. Some very high-end firms are experimenting with this, but nobody's successfully created one yet. What this game has is some carefully written (and very extensive) conditional loops and scripts. If you present the game with a set of parameters (date, alliance, whatever) it recognizes, it will "fire" that decision. If you present it with something that the programmers either didn't anticipate or overlooked, then you get "wacky" or nonsensical decisions. If you don't like the way the "AI" acts, mod the scripts the game engine is using for its decisions.