1.34.3 Hands Off

[Jester]

I have run 6 hands off and the results are very promising.
I ran Coward/Normal with No Random Events, and Using Daywalker's AI files.

WE have colonization ! I HAve seen England, France, Portugal, Denmark, Spain, Venice, and even the Netherlands in one game colonize in theri historical locations. the colonization in North America by the English is still mostly confined to the coast and Spain is having problems moving past the AZtecs but it is much better than I have ever seen in the AGCEEP before.

Overall:
Ottomans are forming very well
Russia is doing good, but not quite making it thru the corridor all the way to China.
I have seen Protugal the Netherlands and England in the West coast of India.
Spain still cant beat the Incas.
Spain still has problems with Aztecs about half the time.
Mexico revolted by 1785 or so in one game.
United States is forming very well as is Quebec.
England is having problems due to the straits in the new beta patch.

Weirdest things I saw are:
England was destroyed by France and Scotland
Fracne was devoured by Burgundy and SCotland!...No England or France....SO very little colonization in North America, BUT the Netherlands was very strong in this game. SPain also did not form so colnization all over was America was weak.

In general
I think things are looking up with the new AI.

Please post your observations and concerns:

 

[Norrefeldt]

Sounds good
If continued playing shows it to be better than the PAI I think we should try to merge them to have only one AI set, to make testing easier. If Daywlker agrees to.

 

[unmerged(17856)]

I'll post my usual remarks regarding ENG colonization and her relevant AI files for PAI...I made changes, simply to the expansion areas and expansion values, that's it, and they work wonderfully. I'm not sure if I've been able to convince ppl for some reason though, despite my own hands off report.

Just in case the latter is even remotely true, Jester, if you would prefer to test them yourself (see post #90 in submissions thread for a link to the changes) then by all means do so before you decide to implement them. Obviously the tests would require a healthy (i.e. historically accurate) ENG develoupment throughout the 1400s and 1500s - as colonization should begin in the early 1600s, in order to assess ENG's capability with these changes. And like I said, I witnessed extremely positive results with the above requisits in place.

On the potential PAI - Daywalker merger; I'm not too sure that's a good idea, especially with the uncertainty of where this project lies regarding AI helper events.

If only for a stop-gap solution, I'd recommend that we keep the PAI files as default files, and the Daywalker files and AI helper event files as a toggable options, at least until we get some thorough results on the effects that Daywalker's AI files have on historical develoupment in AGCEEP, and those regarding that same develoupment with the AI cheats included. So, with Daywalkers AI files and cheat files available as options, then we can very very easily obtain hands-off reports from contributers and fans.

 

[unmerged(2456)]

Daywalker's AI should always be default off because it requires his AI mod to be installed, which not everyone does.

 

[Jester]

I'll post my usual remarks regarding ENG colonization and her relevant AI files for PAI...I made changes, simply to the expansion areas and expansion values, that's it, and they work wonderfully. I'm not sure if I've been able to convince ppl for some reason though, despite my own hands off report.

Just in case the latter is even remotely true, Jester, if you would prefer to test them yourself (see post #90 in submissions thread for a link to the changes) then by all means do so before you decide to implement them. Obviously the tests would require a healthy (i.e. historically accurate) ENG develoupment throughout the 1400s and 1500s - as colonization should begin in the early 1600s, in order to assess ENG's capability with these changes. And like I said, I witnessed extremely positive results with the above requisits in place.

On the potential PAI - Daywalker merger; I'm not too sure that's a good idea, especially with the uncertainty of where this project lies regarding AI helper events.

If only for a stop-gap solution, I'd recommend that we keep the PAI files as default files, and the Daywalker files and AI helper event files as a toggable options, at least until we get some thorough results on the effects that Daywalker's AI files have on historical develoupment in AGCEEP, and those regarding that same develoupment with the AI cheats included. So, with Daywalkers AI files and cheat files available as options, then we can very very easily obtain hands-off reports from contributers and fans.

Auctually the "Use Daywalker's AI Files" option is set up to only use the Daywalker AI files..NOT any Helper, Cheat or counter events. This is what was decided becasue so many are leery of AI cheat events. SO I don't see any problem in merging the PAI and the Daywalker AI files in the next patch...or however long it takes me. This was already discusses in the AI thread.

And yes the Daywalker AI is going to be an OFF option until I can get a website up with a download location in order for people to download the combined AGCEEP with Daywalker's AI files included. Then the AGCEEP will have it's own website.

What is everyone else experiencing with the newest patch.

Late,
Jester

 

[Summoner]

1496 with the daywalker AIs. Por has several colonial cities in west africa but only a tp in leon, spain has a few settlements in the caribean, not sure if tps or colonies. A 1 prov granada's been force vassaled by spain, and a rump Aragon's (lost half her island provs and a few at home to revolts) running free. Dunno how far they've explored since I'm playing France and just strobed colombus before stopping. The only ahisitoric foriegn policy choice I've taken's been to pursue my cores in burgundy instead of going after italy. Naples is gone, so those events would never fire in the 1st place, and Milan's 3prov, so having a core on thier capital onyl wouldn't be particularly useful.

Ottomans look decent, timmurids are gone with a big chunk of thier central territories in uzbek hands, the remainging central and western territory are held by the black sheep. The eastern half's split between an 8-10 prov transoxenia, and baluchistan.

 

[Garbon]

timmurids are gone with a big chunk of thier central territories in uzbek hands, the remainging central and western territory are held by the black sheep. The eastern half's split between an 8-10 prov transoxenia, and baluchistan.

Interesting...although I suppose ultimately irrelevant given the overhaul that this region is to once again receive.

 

[unmerged(17856)]

*post moved to the Daywalker's mod and AGCEEP*

 

[Summoner]

1496 with the daywalker AIs. Por has several colonial cities in west africa but only a tp in leon, spain has a few settlements in the caribean, not sure if tps or colonies. A 1 prov granada's been force vassaled by spain, and a rump Aragon's (lost half her island provs and a few at home to revolts) running free. Dunno how far they've explored since I'm playing France and just strobed colombus before stopping. The only ahisitoric foriegn policy choice I've taken's been to pursue my cores in burgundy instead of going after italy. Naples is gone, so those events would never fire in the 1st place, and Milan's 3prov, so having a core on thier capital onyl wouldn't be particularly useful.

Ottomans look decent, timmurids are gone with a big chunk of thier central territories in uzbek hands, the remainging central and western territory are held by the black sheep. The eastern half's split between an 8-10 prov transoxenia, and baluchistan.

About 1550 now and it's falling appart. Ottomans have taken out Egypt but Hungary is unscathed. Spain has colonized parts of the Caribean, near the river mouth in Argentina, and has put several large TPs in near worthless provs around the gulf of california. AFIAK they've yet to declare war on any native nations. Portugal never went past mobassa to trigger the Soccotra, Goa, or Mallaca events. The latter probably would've failed against the 8 prov super Mallaca that formed this time. Por has a few brazilian colonies, but most of the coast is owned by denmark. IIRC the danes were still catholic when most of the settlements were established. Mughals are large but haven't moved south into india. Delhi's been devoured by the rajputs and Via???, dunno if that broke the sequence or not. No persia as usual. The golden horde's grown helping the Mughals cut the Uzbek giant down to size, so russian expansion east is doubtful.

 

[Jester]

About 1550 now and it's falling appart. Ottomans have taken out Egypt but Hungary is unscathed. Spain has colonized parts of the Caribean, near the river mouth in Argentina, and has put several large TPs in near worthless provs around the gulf of california. AFIAK they've yet to declare war on any native nations. Portugal never went past mobassa to trigger the Soccotra, Goa, or Mallaca events. The latter probably would've failed against the 8 prov super Mallaca that formed this time. Por has a few brazilian colonies, but most of the coast is owned by denmark. IIRC the danes were still catholic when most of the settlements were established. Mughals are large but haven't moved south into india. Delhi's been devoured by the rajputs and Via???, dunno if that broke the sequence or not. No persia as usual. The golden horde's grown helping the Mughals cut the Uzbek giant down to size, so russian expansion east is doubtful.

Just wondering Summoner, what settings are you playing on, and what country are you playing.

Late,
Jester

 

[doktarr]

I have run 6 hands off and the results are very promising.
I ran Coward/Normal with No Random Events, and Using Daywalker's AI files.

WE have colonization ! I HAve seen England, France, Portugal, Denmark, Spain, Venice, and even the Netherlands in one game colonize in theri historical locations. the colonization in North America by the English is still mostly confined to the coast and Spain is having problems moving past the AZtecs but it is much better than I have ever seen in the AGCEEP before.

I am Jack's complete lack of surprise. The AI files have always been the problem. We need to get our own version of the AI files ASAP so that those who haven't downloaded BPAI aren't left out in the cold. I've always liked the BP approach over the PAI approach, anyway.

Overall:
Ottomans are forming very well
Russia is doing good, but not quite making it thru the corridor all the way to China.

Remarkable that they're doing that well, since all the agreed-upon changes haven't been implemented.

I have seen Protugal the Netherlands and England in the West coast of India.
Spain still cant beat the Incas.

I still think that a simple change to the Spanish AI, along with some modifications to the colonization modifiers of a few provinces, will fix this. The events just need to trigger.

Spain still has problems with Aztecs about half the time.

Nobody's yet written the Zapotec alliance events, to my knowledge.

England is having problems due to the straits in the new beta patch.

I don't think we should attempt to support the latest patch. Given the large amount of criticism, the straits will probably be rolled back in the next patch.

 

[Summoner]

Just wondering Summoner, what settings are you playing on, and what country are you playing.

France, normal/coward, random on, fantasy on(?). At that point in time the only B choice with foriegn policy effects I recall making was going after Burgundian claims instead of Italian ones. Naples was gone, so the event for cores on them would never fire, and a core on the capital of a 3prov Milan would only be good for accumulating BB.

 

[FrosT37]

Weirdest things I saw are:
England was destroyed by France and Scotland
Fracne was devoured by Burgundy and SCotland!...No England or France....SO very little colonization in North America, BUT the Netherlands was very strong in this game. SPain also did not form so colnization all over was America was weak.

Have you taken screenshots?

 

[Toio]

About 1550 now and it's falling appart. Ottomans have taken out Egypt but Hungary is unscathed.

You will most likely always get this untill we place Hungary on the combat list of all AI's for the OE. All, I mean any monarch from 1430 to 1550.

I have sent Norrefeldt my map of what europe looks like (1535) for the OE with this change to their AI. Note I also changed their offsets for events.

If you leave hungary unscathed then the logical wars between Austria and Hungary ( which always happens) nearly always favour the hungarians. and this has a rolling effect on austria and central europe.

 

[Toio]

Problems with spain are mostly due to Aragon being too strong, there needs to be these historical negative events for aragon included:

1. Neglect of Alphonso V leaving Aragon to settle in Naples from 1432-1458.

2. Devaulation of the coinage in 1458, had revolts with the landowners and rentiers.

3. Catalan revolution (1462-1472) mainly due to Barcelona merchants.

We also have the wrong goods in most aragon provinces, Valencia had crops and the rest had wool/sheep. Wool was so popular that an agreement was signed in 1495 that provided 8000 pack mules to deliver 15000 woolpacks (900 tons) from Burgos to Bilbao and then to Antwerp. yearly.
This agreement was between Castile and Aragon.

 

[Twoflower]

We also have the wrong goods in most aragon provinces, Valencia had crops and the rest had wool/sheep. Wool was so popular that an agreement was signed in 1495 that provided 8000 pack mules to deliver 15000 woolpacks (900 tons) from Burgos to Bilbao and then to Antwerp. yearly.
This agreement was between Castile and Aragon.

Catalonia should quite definitely have spices though. Barcelona was Europe's main market for saffron, which is by far the most expensive spice. Merchants from the Netherlands, South Germany and Cologne went all the way there to buy big amounts of saffron which they selled with an enormous profit. The rest of the Kingdom of Aragon could quite probably produce cheaper goods, but not having Catalonia produce spices is a major inaccuracy.

 

[unmerged(31425)]

Catalonia should quite definitely have spices though. Barcelona was Europe's main market for saffron, which is by far the most expensive spice. Merchants from the Netherlands, South Germany and Cologne went all the way there to buy big amounts of saffron which they selled with an enormous profit. The rest of the Kingdom of Aragon could quite probably produce cheaper goods, but not having Catalonia produce spices is a major inaccuracy.

Was the Saffron grown there? And if so did it exceed wool in total profits?

 

[Twoflower]

Was the Saffron grown there? And if so did it exceed wool in total profits?

Yes, it was grown/produced in Catalonia, and I'm quite sure that the most expensive spice in the world that was bought by merchants from all Europe in big amounts gained slightly bigger profits than wool. The market of Barcelona was famous and immensely important because of saffron, not because of wool.
Spain is still the world's main supplier of saffron besides India today, and the only area with significant production of saffron in Spain is and was Catalonia.

 

[unmerged(31425)]

Yes, it was grown/produced in Catalonia, and I'm quite sure that the most expensive spice in the world that was bought by merchants from all Europe in big amounts gained slightly bigger profits than wool. The market of Barcelona was famous and immensely important because of saffron, not because of wool.
Spain is still the world's main supplier of saffron besides India today, and the only area with significant production of saffron in Spain is and was Catalonia.

Then I got no problems with it bro. I've noticed we tend to be in agreement on commodities in the game. In fact we tend to agree on almost everything. I'm still surprised even to this day that you detest my AI vassalization event.

 

[unmerged(16323)]

Jester, will you be making some more hands-offs?

If so, could you test my Cossack Uprising events next time you run one? I've already tested them while playing Poland but still have to know how the AI behaves on both sides.