1.30 Naval and Marines changes?

[Sete]

Since I tend to play Naval oriented Nations, Im curious about the scope of changes on the Naval idea set, and how worthwhile it will be.
Will we have a sneak peak soon?
I assume the press gangs are being replaced for a higher marine limit in the idea set?

About the Marines will they continue to have the 25% shock malus?
Since they will be fewer in number even for nations that have a higher force limit, for me it makes more sense to pay extra for a specialized unit than having such a crippling debuff.
I dont want to use Marines just to capture empty islands or coastal regions, they need to be viable in combat.

 

[Titanius Puffin]

I suspect Marines might be there for not for pitched battles but for small, quick raids, and clearing the way for a major invasion from the sea.

I'm going to be naughty and quote myself....

........naval landings are best used for quick actions in non-fort provinces. The goals can vary:

- to capture the province and seize the port so a larger transport fleet may dock.
- to capture the province to flush out ships anchoring in port (the EU4 equivalent of port raiding).
- to capture a coastal war-goal province (that doesn't have a fort).
- to distract enemy forces away from a main offensive.
- to surprise a (very) small force in a coastal province.
- to (slightly)reinforce a battle occurring in a coastal province.
​

The lack of attrition at sea is good too, but I think marines are all about speed. The marines reduced disembark time should synergise well with high net siege ability. Here are some speculative numbers (just guesses).

Normal army with no (net) siege ability advantage - 14 days to disembark and 30 days to occupy a province - 44 days total

Marine force with 33% net siege ability advantage - 5 days to disembark and 20 days to occupy a province - 25 days total

The difference might be enough time to get in, and then get out again before someone shows up.
It'd be high risk, but you wouldn't need to do it with many regiments.

I'm not sure how it will work out. But I'm interested in giving it a go.

 

[iClipse]

Since I tend to play Naval oriented Nations, Im curious about the scope of changes on the Naval idea set, and how worthwhile it will be.
Will we have a sneak peak soon?
I assume the press gangs are being replaced for a higher marine limit in the idea set?

About the Marines will they continue to have the 25% shock malus?
Since they will be fewer in number even for nations that have a higher force limit, for me it makes more sense to pay extra for a specialized unit than having such a crippling debuff.
I dont want to use Marines just to capture empty islands or coastal regions, they need to be viable in combat.

There quite a few changes. Blockades have been made more costly. Actually giving you income as the blockading country just like looking the provinces does. There have been made some changes to naval battles so they aren't as one sided if one side has better combat ability. So 20 British Heavy Ships won't win versus 200 heavy ships from someone with no naval combat ability anymore.

Also there is a new (seemingly decent) government reform for countries that completed naval ideas where your best admiral becomes your ruler.

The marines, I like them but I will reserve judgement until I can use them in practice. Nobody is forced to use them, but they seem extremely useful for conquering natives and transporting around.

All in all quite a few changes. Not sure if it'll be enough for naval countries, but it's not like the received no love.

 

[MasterPaw]

I suspect Marines might be there for not for pitched battles but for small, quick raids, and clearing the way for a major invasion from the sea.

I'm going to be naughty and quote myself....



The lack of attrition at sea is good too, but I think marines are all about speed. The marines reduced disembark time should synergise well with high net siege ability. Here are some speculative numbers (just guesses).

Normal army with no (net) siege ability advantage - 14 days to disembark and 30 days to occupy a province - 44 days total

Marine force with 33% net siege ability advantage - 5 days to disembark and 20 days to occupy a province - 25 days total

The difference might be enough time to get in, and then get out again before someone shows up.
It'd be high risk, but you wouldn't need to do it with many regiments.

I'm not sure how it will work out. But I'm interested in giving it a go.

Your quote summarize well when to use them.
One question I have is if the marine will have the same modifier than land infantry (they should probably use naval tradition instead of army tradition; for ideas I guess it can depend of the ideas but they could share these)

 

[Sete]

I'm curious on the Marines modifiers.
I do a lot of games with Portugal and since their army is weak, I fear that Portugal marines, with no Military ideas to buff them and with a 25% shock malus, will be trashed by everything.
If I am not able to even conquer a coastal fortress with them, there no point to waste ducats on them.

Thalassocracy is the way to play with Portugal and a decent marine force will be fundamental for that, for the historical playtrough at least.
Hence my curiosity on the Portuguese Fuzilier flagship bonus.

If as Portugal I can take exploration and naval as first and second idea, and if naval/flagship buffs marines proper, that would quell my complaints about Portugal NI.

(Although I will push for Navy Tradition as tradition instead of trade efficiency).

 

[iClipse]

I'm curious on the Marines modifiers.
I do a lot of games with Portugal and since their army is weak, I fear that Portugal marines, with no Military ideas to buff them and with a 25% shock malus, will be trashed by everything.
If I am not able to even conquer a coastal fortress with them, there no point to waste ducats on them.

Thalassocracy is the way to play with Portugal and a decent marine force will be fundamental for that, for the historical playtrough at least.
Hence my curiosity on the Portuguese Fuzilier flagship bonus.

If as Portugal I can take exploration and naval as first and second idea, and if naval/flagship buffs marines proper, that would quell my complaints about Portugal NI.

(Although I will push for Navy Tradition as tradition instead of trade efficiency).

Combat ability usually doesn't matter when fighting out of Europe and lategame where you win because you're in a better tech group than for example the Indians. Also combat ability can easily be countered by taking An extra military idea group. If you're fighting against tribes or small(er) Indonesian countries, what you really want is a way to reduce attrittion. And marines do exactly that since they don't use manpower. Using marines is a way to kind of double your manpower usage. This will be especially important in the next version with the changes to mercenaries.

 

[Sete]

Combat ability usually doesn't matter when fighting out of Europe and lategame where you win because you're in a better tech group than for example the Indians. Also combat ability can easily be countered by taking An extra military idea group. If you're fighting against tribes or small(er) Indonesian countries, what you really want is a way to reduce attrittion. And marines do exactly that since they don't use manpower. Using marines is a way to kind of double your manpower usage. This will be especially important in the next version with the changes to mercenaries.

Problem are the Timurids which usually have Hormuz and Vijayanagar, that will attack Goa, their far superior NI among others in the Portugal mission area.

Both these Nations, will already have combat ability early into their Ideas tree eliminating whatever tech advantage I will have when reaching their area.
I simply do not believe that the advantage of the western tech group over indian to be that superior that would excuse some sort of buff.
Portugal is lacking early game defensive bonus, I would argue.