1.3.x = least fun to play version of the game. Please make the game more FUN!!

[AlricWaskir]

I really enjoyed this game and I can say I have spent maybe way too much time with it. However right now the game has a lot of screwed up mechanics that make it a pain to play. I will list the mechanics/bugs which are most relevant, explain why they are hampering fun and if possible make a suggestion. After all I like this game way too much and hope improvements are ahead. I would also appreciate if you had any suggestions to make the game more fun and add more lategame incentives.

1 Expanding via vassals: Unfortunately the only way to play the game unless you want to play in semi-observe mode after the early game. This is mainly due to coalition mechanics.

2 Coalition mechanics: On hard-difficulty taking 2 provinces guarantees a hostile coalition unless a) you are allied with all surrounding neighbours or b) you fought against a nation without neighbours. Taking 1 province out of the HRE mostly does the same after rejecting "unjustified demands" from the emperor.
--> 1st you kinda have to vassal feed or you will grow a huge coalition if you want to expand. 2nd it forces a player who does not want to exploit game mechanics to... wait. On the bright side this leads to a more historical gameplay. On the other hand it forces the player to... wait. Waiting is no fun.
Suggestion: Reduce Aggressive expansion penalties drastically. Let's assume AE was halved, you could still conquer your way into a hostile coalition with ease. However getting coalitions after 1-2 provinces seems just exaggerated in terms of gameplay.

3 Vanishing cores: I will not go into too much detail since this is being constantly discussed. However after the hotfix it's even worse for the player basically due to extreme buginess. For example the cores of Styria should not expire before the end of the game since they are the same culture as Austria (1944). However they will expire in 1644. Furthermore if you take one styrian province and release it as a vassal all it's remaining cores will vanish before 1544 immediately. When it comes to vassal feeding, this basically means that expansion following this path are all effectively shortened by 50 years. Another problem is that a lot of cores will vanish in reference to the starting date of your game. For example if the Burgundy-event fires in 1499, all cores outside the French culture group are gone from one day to the next, although the owner change should trigger. There is more but as said I don't want to go into too much detail.
--> For the player this means 1st: The tooltips are still extremely confusing. 2nd: Expanding via vassals can only be done in a shorter timeframe. 3rd: After the mid game there is nothing left except for huge coalitions or some colonizing. Both of which are no fun unless you really want to push yourself to a world conquest in the most painful way.
suggestion: It can't be too hard to write a decent tooltip, seriously. // Just leave the cores. Players WANT to conquer. It's fun. So why not just let them? A worldconquest in 1.0 was hard enough. If you don't go for a WC all you can do is go into semi-observe mode after you have 100+ provinces since AE scales ridicolously.

4 Personal Unions: Just super random and basically impossible for the player unless you get extremely lucky or start in Iberia. The main problem is that there is no good way to counter them. Right now the only thing you can do in order to stop a personal union is to beat up the overlord to -100 prestige and hope for their king to die before the country recovers.
--> A game can be truly ruined when an AI stacks up PUs. For example I have seen a Castille/Portugal/Aragon/Naples/Austria/Palatinate PU. I mean its not the end of the game, but that kind of superblob can lead to a total standstill of the map. Combined with the vanishing cores this part of the map is basically locked forever.
suggeston: 1st add a casus belli for breaking up personal unions. 2nd make PUs accessible to the player again. PUs in 1.0 where absolutely fine. So a player can become superpowerful. So what? There have to be some big gains. After conquering myself up to ~100 forcelimits there should be some wars that are worth fighting for. 3 add the option to join a defensive PU war if you have a RM or if you have the same dynasty regardless of alliance. The claim throne succession war does not work at all, since no sane person (and not even the AI) will claim all thrones, especially in the (normal) case where you have no chance to inherit it.

5 Lack of flavour (missions and events): After your initial missions I find myself repeating the "fortify province X" mission until I just ignore them. Flavour events just happen or they don't given certain triggers. However they are very scarce
suggestion: This one is more of a wish. It would be great to have a wider variety of missions such as "raid Muscovy" for 10% of their annual income. // It would be great if there were more flavour events. Especially those which have a sequence of decisions such as religious turmoil. Also why not add some minor generic event sequences? Crusader King 2 has hunting/ feasting which can entertain you in peace times as well as give minor buffs.

6 Other stuff:
-My game is up to date but I still get AE from integrating vassals.. So even with vassal feeding you have coalitions non-stop which again hampers any expansion.
-Vassal attachement: Please add an option to tell them to attach/skirmish/hunt/siege. In wars I am constantly trying to avoid vassal-attrition. Since attrition can be extremely high army composition just doesn't matter at all. It's all just about avoiding attrition.

6 Summary: After you established your base in the early game, and afterwards you vassal fed yourself into a major power there is simply nothing left to do unless you are a coalition-masochist. In EU 4 you basically have only 1 option: Fight over provinces. And currently the game is designed to make this as hard, painful, low-rewarding, and slow as possible. I don't have a problem in it being hard, I don't have a problem it being painful, or low-rewarding, or slow. But all of them at once..?

After so much criticism I also want to mention a change in 1.3 that I really liked. Apart from the attaching vassals everything around the combat system is a huge improvement to before.

 

[Lakedaimon]

The point of the game is to make it challenging for the entire duration. No matter how big you get you still can't just slap everyone across the face all the time without it ending up costing more than you bargained for, either in terms of losing wars or having to fight massive wars for little to no gain.

About PU's etc, it is much like everything else in the game. It depends on luck but you can influence it, it is more about finding opportinuties and seizing them. Personally I'm having tons of fun and every game I play is different. Sometimes I achieve my overall goals and sometimes I don't. No matter how big I get I always have to be mindful of not upsetting too many people and maintaining my alliances. I love it. Rather than being a paintbrush that paints the whole map my color I actually feel like I am someone ruling a nation.

 

[AlricWaskir]

Nothing wrong with that. I just get bored when I have to wait 10-20 years, and there is literally nothing I can do except for DOWing the coalition. Sometimes I do it just to fight a big war but after I did this 2 or 3 times I WANT to see some progress other than 3 provinces.

Concerning PU's. Well the only thing you can do is try to marry some old guys without any heir. That will give you a minor chance. Still the chance is REALLY low. The better way is actually to try to force yourself being without heir and "dying into another dynasty". I mean I wouldn't really call it "influencing"

 

[Novacat]

Coalitions are more tedious than challenging.

 

[SerFishy]

I agree with the PU part but I think they should be made even less available instead of re-introducing the CB. In my first playthrough, I had the whole Mamluks, Persia and Crimea as Ottomans by 1600s simply because I had marriages wiith them and when they had disputed succession, I claimed their thrones, occupied their capitals and trade nodes and carpet sieged the rest until the warscore hit 84% and improved relations. Result: even easier than vassal feeding.

Instead, it should be made way more difficult to get PUs, maybe through reducing the chance of disputed succession. Disputed succession is so common that obscure PUs like Spanish-French or Portugese-English-Austrian or Swedish-Bohemian-Napolitenian or Ottoman-Timurid-Mamluk unions almost always occur.

In real life, such disputed successions would occur only once one or two centuries and even then, it would not be so easy to lead to a union. Also, everyone has disputed succession at the begining of the game so it is too easy to get PUs at the beginning. They should have their heirs assigned instead of leaving it to the game to find a heir. And it should not be randomized but there should be actual family trees so that France can find a noble family with more claim then Spaniards or Swedish guys. Dynasties were an important part of the era to be left to randomized choice and some string names for the ruler and the heir but they are too simple and have no real effect except for the ridiculously easy unions and +15 relations in the game.

 

[lordelenath]

I think it would be great to make PUs less luck-based again, but on the other hand give other people the possibility to break the union (e.g. with a CB or special rebel funding options). But I think sooner or later we'll get a more flashed out dynasty DLC which will hopefully improve on that side.

 

[Lakedaimon]

Well if you get too much AE then maybe don't play on hard difficulty. If you don't like what the hard difficulty does then choose a different one.

 

[Schmoekoeksklok]

1&2: They're already removing the fact that AE scales with your size in 1.4, which should fix this problem.

3: Only cores of the primary nation for that culture last 250/500 years, so in the case of Austrian that's only Austria, not Styria. Also, the fact that cores for existing countries are halved is a clever way to reduce the window of opportunity of doing exactly what you described there while still having the possibility to release nations later in the game.
The thing that doesn't work properly is cores not resetting when they change hands (mostly), and I really wish we heard something about that, but there's plenty threads on that already.

4: It's nowhere near impossible for a player, especially since the AI (virtually?) never uses the claim throne CB. It's just that all the major powers ally and marry eachother so in the event of an heirless death it will virtually always be another major power getting the PU. But the fact there is nothing you can do about it after it happened, combined with the non-resetting coretimers so you can't do anything about it after integration/inheritance either, really needs to be looked at.

5: That would be nice I guess :d

6: Your choice of words is confusing, you integrate PU's or annex vassals? If it's PU's, then those are supposed to give AE, it was just changed so you don't get AE when you inherit them. I've never seen annexing vassals give AE.
Better war ai for vassals (and allies) would be much appreciated though.

 

[grommile]

6: Your choice of words is confusing, you integrate PU's or annex vassals? If it's PU's, then those are supposed to give AE, it was just changed so you don't get AE when you inherit them. I've never seen annexing vassals give AE.

Annexing a vassal gives a little bit of AE (y'know, something like 4-5 points). Well, normally a little bit.

 

[AlricWaskir]

1&2: They're already removing the fact that AE scales with your size in 1.4, which should fix this problem.

3: Only cores of the primary nation for that culture last 250/500 years, so in the case of Austrian that's only Austria, not Styria. Also, the fact that cores for existing countries are halved is a clever way to reduce the window of opportunity of doing exactly what you described there while still having the possibility to release nations later in the game.
The thing that doesn't work properly is cores not resetting when they change hands (mostly), and I really wish we heard something about that, but there's plenty threads on that already.

4: It's nowhere near impossible for a player, especially since the AI (virtually?) never uses the claim throne CB. It's just that all the major powers ally and marry eachother so in the event of an heirless death it will virtually always be another major power getting the PU. But the fact there is nothing you can do about it after it happened, combined with the non-resetting coretimers so you can't do anything about it after integration/inheritance either, really needs to be looked at.

5: That would be nice I guess :d

6: Your choice of words is confusing, you integrate PU's or annex vassals? If it's PU's, then those are supposed to give AE, it was just changed so you don't get AE when you inherit them. I've never seen annexing vassals give AE.
Better war ai for vassals (and allies) would be much appreciated though.

To 1&2: Great!
To 3: I wouldn't mind having an alternative to vassal feeding. But since the alternative is called huge coalition I would love to have longer cores.
to 6: Yeah I guess it was a bit confusing. I get AE after annexing the vassals. In my current playthrough this lead to a coalition against me after having annexed 4 vassals within 2 month. What I meant is that even if you vassal feed: After annexing them I got coalitions..

@Lakedaimon: It hurts me inside but that is exactly what I am about to do Do you know if it affects only AE or does it also affect the AI and other stuff? Never played on normal.

 

[Schmoekoeksklok]

Annexing a vassal gives a little bit of AE (y'know, something like 4-5 points). Well, normally a little bit.

Hm, I guess when I annex giant vassals it's always in places where there are no other countries anymore so I don't notice it

 

[highsis]

Agreed. At least forbid vassal feeding so people who say the game's WAD can feel the frustration of player who don't use VF exploit.

 

[lordelenath]

It was actually stated by Paradox staff members that vassal feeding is WAD.

 

[FearTheAmish]

Okay i am going to say it and i already regret it OP needs to L2P. This is not CK2 were you can recklessly expand you need to make your war goals small and expand slowly but steadily. In middle of Game that i started as Gelre and founded Netherlands it is currently 1556 and i own all that is traditionally Belgium, Netherlands, and parts of NE france as well as expanded into HRE as far as Achen/Kologn. I just finished a war with Spain/Portugal/England (Aragon has a PU on Castile, Portugal has a PU on England) and have taken the Caribbean from them (i went to 222% OE but survived that) and now am expanding along Africa and heading to India. You have to Maintain allies to counter balance right now there is a huge Spain block that consists of Aragon, Castile, Portugal, England. A huge France block which is France and Austria, and then my block which is Netherlands/Scandinavia who has a PU on Lithuania. So we just finished a world war between Scandinavia and the Spanish Coalition and it was probably the most fun war i have had in awhile. Pick your battles i had to wait until france/austria were fighting Ottomans or i would have gotten dog piled by them too.

When you get High AE (not coalition level but just before it) switch gears go economic and build up infrastructure. Or go colonial and build your oversea empire. Or if both of those unavailable look at playing the trade game. Basically you need to switch focus repeatedly from Conquest to other endeavors and do it repeatedly. So to help here is my checklist....

Step 1: Conquer Territory and then Rebuild MP

-Has AE droped-
If yes - repeat step 1
If no - Expand Colonial empire
If no and not able to colonize - Build up infrastructure
If no and Infrastructure maximized or not able to colonize - Tweak Trade flow
If no and Infrastructure maximized or not able to colonize or tweak trade flow - Work on Diplomatic relations

At all times one of these should be available long enough for you to drop your AE and then go back to expanding violently. Also remember if you lift diplomatic relations you can cause most members to leave coalition against you but takes 5 years for that to happen. When not at war drop your Maintenance for Military to at least Half if not 3/4's this will give you the gold you need to maximize your infrastructure.

 

[Beagá]

As long as people keep thinking the goal of the game is world conquest, we´ll see threads like this.

 

[lordelenath]

The goal of the game is what you want it to be. Making world conquest impossible is just as bad as making it easy. You don't have to do it if you don't want to, but people who aim for WC should be able to do it (able, not guaranteed) - the revealed 1.4 changes indicate that PI goes back to making WC possible.

 

[SerFishy]

6: Your choice of words is confusing, you integrate PU's or annex vassals? If it's PU's, then those are supposed to give AE, it was just changed so you don't get AE when you inherit them. I've never seen annexing vassals give AE.
Better war ai for vassals (and allies) would be much appreciated though.

Definitely this. No one wants an Enlish doomstack stuck to another Spanish doomstack during a siege, causing attrition. I get around this by luring the enemy to a small stack so that the ally stack would go to help my bait-stack and leave me in peace.

 

[Brawler]

As long as people keep thinking the goal of the game is world conquest, we´ll see threads like this.

Straight from the first line of advertising on every gaming site:

**********************************************************
About the Game
Fulfill Your Quest For Global Domination

Paradox Development Studio is back with the fourth installment of the award-winning Europa Universalis series. The empire building game Europa Universalis IV gives you control of a nation to guide through the years in order to create a dominant global empire. Rule your nation through the centuries, with unparalleled freedom, depth and historical accuracy. True exploration, trade, warfare and diplomacy will be brought to life in this epic title rife with rich strategic and tactical depth.

**********************************************************

The first sentence alone is the reason why people purchase this game then are disappointed because they cannot paint the world their colour then feel cheated due to false advertising etc. The problem isn't adjusting to the mechanics, people are smart. The issue is the mechanics force you to play only one way which is vassal feeding to avoid admin MP costs and lowered AE which gets boring after you have conquered and vassalised your 20th nation and just repeating the same thing over and over. No one can push you over, you just keep steamrolling everything with this one way to play.

 

[FearTheAmish]

Straight from the first line of advertising on every gaming site:

**********************************************************
About the Game
Fulfill Your Quest For Global Domination

Paradox Development Studio is back with the fourth installment of the award-winning Europa Universalis series. The empire building game Europa Universalis IV gives you control of a nation to guide through the years in order to create a dominant global empire. Rule your nation through the centuries, with unparalleled freedom, depth and historical accuracy. True exploration, trade, warfare and diplomacy will be brought to life in this epic title rife with rich strategic and tactical depth.

**********************************************************

The first sentence alone is the reason why people purchase this game then are disappointed because they cannot paint the world their colour then feel cheated due to false advertising etc. The problem isn't adjusting to the mechanics, people are smart. The issue is the mechanics force you to play only one way which is vassal feeding to avoid admin MP costs and lowered AE which gets boring after you have conquered and vassalised your 20th nation and just repeating the same thing over and over. No one can push you over, you just keep steamrolling everything with this one way to play.

You seem confused between Dominate Global Power and painting the map because they are two different things. Also first sentence is "Paradox Development Studio is back with the fourth installment of the award-winning Europa Universalis series" which says nothing about painting maps.

 

[SerFishy]

You seem confused between Dominate Global Power and painting the map because they are two different things. Also first sentence is "Paradox Development Studio is back with the fourth installment of the award-winning Europa Universalis series" which says nothing about painting maps.

In this universe, in a language called English on a planet called Earth orbiting around Sol, which is a star in Milkyway, global domination or world domination exactly means conquering the whole world. Seems weird and can be interpreted as dominating other powers but it is not. It simply means painting the map.