1.3 Information - 25th September

[kiaghi7]

Can we please get at least a side mention of proper hot-keys in the game?

This has been requested by numerous people, and only vaguely acknowledged as an ENORMOUS problem by paradox. The game is a chore to interact with when you have literally hundreds if not thousands of clicks to make in order to build up any significant area of land. Hotkeys for province developments are must-have to compensate for the insane amount of clicking that is currently required, and at this point are MANDATORY for any sort of patch intended to fix problems with the game because actually being able to interact with the game should be a paramount priority rather than the current status of "ignore it long enough and it will go away".

Which in some respects is true, if Paradox does continue to ignore it, players are going to continue to go away...

With as long as the game has been out, and the comment from Paradox powers that be, that adding hotkeys would be "trivial", it certainly isn't a trivial task getting Paradox to actually DO that. It's more akin to a Sisyphean labor that's STILL being continually ignored no matter how much the thread that Johan even posted in to get implemented in some form. This has gone on for far too long already and it's time to 'go or get off the pot'!

If it's so darned trivial, then just do it already Paradox and give us a 1.21 patch to just make playing the game less of a pain in the behind, and more of an actual GAME. I shouldn't have to fight a war with the interface before I even get to start a war with a nation.

 

[Lord Strange]

I believe they were involved with the big hotkeys thread and said it was easy to add them in. Would not surpries me if they were added in the patch.

 

[elpeladopocione]

i meant moving brigades from one division to another.

Thx! I found that hoi3 menus for multi division selection/reorg have proven to be such a hazzle, really both that and trade agreement screen have become a step backwards from hoi2

 

[AJL]

I read some points in another thread that I think address some issues i've seen with 1.2 that haven't gotten any coverage in this thread so I decided to to re-post it and ask if any attention will be given to these matters in 1.3

Post by dsteve3:

"The game isn't really playable right now.

1) The scripting for the AI isn't able to play even basic rolls. There are bugs which cause units to be destroyed without any real effort (air units getting stuck, for example). As well, many nations can't interpret threat properly, so completely ruin their chances of success by allocating forces far away from where they are needed. Add to this the production priorities which cause units to build many ineffective units and not nearly enough effective units and the AI doesn't stand a chance.

2) The lag in the cues for production and research slow the game to a crawl.

3) The whole issue regarding the complete lack of any real "blitz" in the blitzkrieg turns the game into a WWI simulator. This is a major issue; the rate of movement is anywhere from 1/4 to 1/6 of what it was historically. There has been no indication that any new scripting will allow the AI to do this, so there is no way to allow the player to.

4) Disabling weather to make naval warfare work is just the opposite extreme, which culminates in the function being broken the other way around. No weather is as bad as permanently bad weather.

5) A number of problems with the economic system cause AI nations to grind themselves to a halt. There are mods that alleviate some of the problems, but there are still many issues. Running out of resources means no production, which in turn means no new units, upgrades or reinforcements.

I have unistalled the game for now. I will check back in the bug reports once 1.3 comes out to see if many of the problems are resolved. I have to say though, with so many issues outstanding, a single patch isn't likely to resolve things too far. My guess is that there will be 2 more patches before we see some resolution, and then tweeks afterwards to make the game interesting.

Just my guess, based on experience with HoI and HoI2.

There is too much to fix to catch it all with one patch. "

 

[unmerged(2609)]

I would still like to see a preliminary list of fixed bugs, so I can a) possibly detect further bugs if the descriptions of the fixes are detailed enough (if you had said you were going to turn off AI trade cancel, it would have been possible to predict the "giant sucking sound" allow-debt problem), b) lobby for additional bug fixes if some bad bugs are not mentioned.

This would result in a lot of shrieking and probably some very large threads, but it can't help but make the game better sooner.

If you don't tell us stuff, you won't have to listen to stuff, but listening to stuff is a strength of Paradox, so please give us more info so you can have more to listen to.

 

[AlanC9]

3) The whole issue regarding the complete lack of any real "blitz" in the blitzkrieg turns the game into a WWI simulator. This is a major issue; the rate of movement is anywhere from 1/4 to 1/6 of what it was historically. There has been no indication that any new scripting will allow the AI to do this, so there is no way to allow the player to.

This is simply untrue. I think the fastest I've ever heard of someone reaching the Channel in 1940 is ten days, which is nothing like WW1 speed. Anyone who gets bogged down like WWI doesn't understand how to play. Though since the AI doesn't know how to do this, I guess there is an issue of some sort.

 

[unmerged(2609)]

It is very possible to beat historical speed, and to eliminate huge number of units, without doing anything more clever than frontal attacks. When I attacked the USSR as Germany, I did nothing more than "move all corps into adjacent enemy held province, rinse, repeat", and within about a month the Soviet army had lost 40% of its brigades. Eventually there were no more Soviet units in the center.

I believe a lot of units are getting eliminated during retreats. You can't enable a message telling you when an enemy unit has shattered or surrendered, but perhaps some are shattering, since officer ratio was like 80% at the start of my 1941 attack against USSR in this 1936 GC. Of course, officer ratio jumped up to something like 130%, but by then they didn't have units between Germany and Moscow.

My point here is that this is not like WWI, even if it's harder to pocket 50 divisions.

It's may actually be more efficient now to not even try to pocket divisions. A continuous front advance against the USSR turns them into jelly given the likely tech advantage you'll have in a 1936 GC.

 

[Bhaal]

Thanks PI

 

[him_15]

Totally agree with Hajo Flettner's point.

 

[unmerged(1823)]

I believe they were involved with the big hotkeys thread and said it was easy to add them in. Would not surpries me if they were added in the patch.

We did add in alot of hotkeys requested for 1.2.

 

[unmerged(154348)]

One of my most important question is... with patch 1.3 will i be able to create my own theatre?

 

[LeeDub]

We did add in alot of hotkeys requested for 1.2.

Cool. Will we be able to order infrastructure (or whatever province improvement) built in a province by pressing n (or whatever letter)?

 

[unmerged(159711)]

Appreciate the info, keep up the good work

 

[adoniram]

One of my most important question is... with patch 1.3 will i be able to create my own theatre?

This would really be great!

I managed to annex the UK as Germany and I would very much like to have India a separate theatre as well as Africa. And in Europe I want to split my area in 3 theatres, one for the west half (France, BeNeLux and Western Germany, and one for the eastern parts of Germany and Poland. (Have not started Barbarossa yet) Then having Scandinavia+Finland as a third European Theatre, the silly sods joined the allies after I already conquered the British Home island...

 

[the kookaburra]

Thnkyou for your work on the patch. It is a Paradox strength that they commit to patches.

 

[Poki-Mo]

Thanks for the update and dedication to making this game better..

 

[Barnacle Bill]

I bought hoi2 and eu3 at launch and neither was plagued with the catastrophic problems that hoi3 had. I just wish that the fans and paradox themselves would be more honest about their games massive issues.

The only PI products i've ever really gotten into are the HoI series so those are the only PI products I feel qualified to comment on. I bought HoI 1 the time that it came out and it worked relatively well although it obviously needed a lot more work it had basic functionality. I bought with a pre-order and it had basic functionality right out of the box. In both cases they improved with time but right from the start the core features worked basically the way they should have and CTDs, corrupted save games, memory and snail like speed were never an issue for me or any of the HoI fans I knew at the time.

Says you. As I recall, there is always a bunch of guys posting to the effect that it's unplayable because of x,y,z and how could Paradox release it in this state and its the worst Paradox game yet and so forth. Always. Maybe personally you weren't one of them on the specific games you mention, but they were there. Don't believe me? Go hunt up some old threads from right after those games were released.

Why are we okay with this business model, then? Why do people still pay full price for these games at launch when they know they'll be be broken for months? <snip> I just wish that the fans and paradox themselves would be more honest about their games massive issues.

I just can't support this kind of business model.

In the future I will not PI release until the major functionality issues have been resolved. PI will likely not change the way they do business but I won't pay full price for pre-beta software again and i'd also say such business practices will hurt PI overall.

I do think that PI has really hurt themselves by releasing HoI 3 in the state they did and I hope that they don't make such a drastic mistake in the future.

They always post stuff like that, too.

Since HoI 3 was released upon the public in a pre-beta condition there is no way to look at it other then case of PI having no QA to speak of.

...and like that, too.

Personally I don't like being told to "give it a rest" when I have legitimate complaints about something that I bought with my hard earned money.

Well, sorry...but it really is kinda "been there, done that". The folks doing the complaining (almost) always have legitimate issues, and have generally paid their hard-earned money to buy the game. However, as I wrote, I'm sure that if complaining about it would do any good then by now (8 years, in my personal experience on this board), it would be different by now.

However, I am willing to give PI the benefit of the doubt and i'll presume that when 1.3 is released all the major problems will be resolved and we'll have a product with a high degree of functionality. I do not think that we should expect a highly polished game with just a handful of optimization/balance type issues as that is far to much to be done quickly.

You may very well be pleased with 1.3, but I'll bet you there will still be some posting the same old stuff again, because it won't have fixed whatever it was in 1.2 that "broke" the game for them, or introduced a new bug that "broke" the game for them. Often these games don't really hit their stride until an expansion or two is out (and a few patches on those).

I think people just have unrealistic expectactions. In the long run, between Paradox continuing to patch games for years and the efforts of the modders, we always end up with a gem in the end. They haven't let me down yet. My advice is chill & enjoy the ride.

 

[PreciousTritium]

I think you're downplaying the issue. Hoi3 is the only paradox game that I bought on launch day that is this broken and this unplayable this long after its launch. I had a great time with hoi2 after the first patch and eu3 even before the first patch. And don't tell me that hoi3 IS playable, because it's not. Maybe as a sandbox but that's it. I'm going to be a smarter consumer when they release their next game. If more people can do the same maybe we can scare them into putting out better games.

 

[kiaghi7]

I believe they were involved with the big hotkeys thread and said it was easy to add them in. Would not surpries me if they were added in the patch.

We did add in alot of hotkeys requested for 1.2.

Indeed, very limited hotkeys were added, but only the very slightest nod to the entire thread of requests for quite literally the same small handful of features that numerous people have been asking for time, and time, and time again since the release of the game. Those being hotkeys for province construction, cycling through provinces systematically like in HOI1 and HOI2, as well as general functions of units.

I don't even care what keys are used, or if Padadox leaves it up to the user to assign (which would be universally beneficial), I just want to see some hot keys for basic things that were a given in previous HOI games, and now are a crippling task that's just shy of never-ending, particularly if you start as a large nation, and especially when you go on the warpath and start gobbling up regions.

As a stop-gap measure, if paradox would even be so kind as to provide a toggle for the Production AI manager which in effect will completely lobotomize the production AI to do absolutely nothing else than build province improvements in all owned territories at all times it would at least be a step in the right direction. I had experimented with modifying it myself but the spaghetti code leaves much to be desired and the results weren't particularly aggressive with their building.

Cool. Will we be able to order infrastructure (or whatever province improvement) built in a province by pressing n (or whatever letter)?

Case in point, players of HOI games want, and even need, the features that are absolutely integral to the interface like hotkeys for development. I appreciate the spurt of hotkeys there are, but none of them addresses the utterly crippling lack of any practical means of developing your provinces and the only option being to make literally hundreds to THOUSANDS of clicks is simply a bridge too far... Thankfully that bridge doesn't require yet more clicks for its construction...

I'm not ranting, griping, or railing against PI, and I still support them and HOI3 so please don't misunderstand. The matter however is that the king has no clothes (nor hotkeys so he's that much MORE NAKED!), and it is a matter that is in dire need of attention post-haste. With some month of development left before the self-determined deadline of November PI has mentioned for patch 1.3, something along those lines can and SHOULD be done. If it is to be part of 1.3 itself, then the wait would be well worth it, but to deny it until a theoretical 1.4 almost certainly some time well into 2010 is beyond the pale.

If game breaking features are to be paramount points of contention to be addressed, then what is to be done about the features that break the game by their absence?

For instance, playing as the USSR, and knowing Germany's eventual aspirations, I could theoretically prepare for them in the 30's and make Western Russia into a fortress to make the Maginot line look like a day-camp, but how would one even go about doing this in any practical manner when they would literally be required to make some 500-1000 clicks and then still of course have to wait for it to all fall into place and then "repair" time and so on and so forth. After which of course your hand falls off of your body, so the result of the war is immaterial since you're going to be in the emergency room having your fingers replaced with your surgically amputated toes... Oh well, you never wanted to actually play the game anyway, and now you'll be able to use that micro-mini mouse and it'll fell like just the right size for your hand! Perhaps I've discovered PI's secret plot... do they have stock holdings in Logitec?

 

[hamster83]

Indeed, very limited hotkeys were added, but only the very slightest nod to the entire thread of requests for quite literally the same small handful of features that numerous people have been asking for time, and time, and time again since the release of the game. Those being hotkeys for province construction, cycling through provinces systematically like in HOI1 and HOI2, as well as general functions of units.

I thought a strength of object-oriented programming is the ability to re-use features implemented in a previous iteration.

Building a new 3D map engine from the ground up is understandable, but why not re-use hotkeys that have been working perfectly before?

The same goes with events or at the very least re-use the HOI2 weather system.

At this rate I'm wondering if HOI4 will include the proven features of HOI3, instead of rebuilding everything from the ground up, again, with the same mistakes and/or omissions.