I hope this can stay separate from the other thread as the issue is not wholly related to the AI Ottoman nerf.
1.22 Ottoman was one of the most fun and versatile starts in the game. It had access to three conversion paths and their according strategies. It could be played as a brainless Sunni map painter or an advanced fast revoke WC machine. It was also friendly to beginners as there was no chance of dying.
On 1.23 I can't full annex AQ without sitting on their provinces and waiting for AE to tick down. I imagine it would be impossible to eat through Persia or Levant without 5xing the game to wait for diplomats. Early game expansion has been effectively killed. I believe this was unnecessary, as there are ways to nerf AI Ottomans without making the human start significantly more difficult. Specifically, the AI nerf does not have to create disadvantages that are hardcapped for the player.
More neighbors means more AE, given the limited number of diplomats and improve relations modifiers, there is nothing a human player can do regardless of skill to overcome AE. On the other hand, if for example the neighbors are given a higher force limit and a bigger starting army, it would limit AI Ottomans all the same while allowing player Ottomans to overcome the same disadvantages through micro. I would much prefer the latter to the former.
I am not concerned with how accurately the Ottoman start ought to reflect history, nor how "OP" AI Ottomans are for other players. I only care that the start allows for the same variety in gameplay compared to pre 1.23. Right now the player Ottomans start has been nerfed disproportionately compared to its AI counterpart. What was once the only non-horde start that allowed for unfettered expansion from day 1 has turned into a tall start that's blocked off on all sides. This was not, in my opinion, what the detractors had in mind when they wanted the nerf in the first place.
1.22 Ottoman was one of the most fun and versatile starts in the game. It had access to three conversion paths and their according strategies. It could be played as a brainless Sunni map painter or an advanced fast revoke WC machine. It was also friendly to beginners as there was no chance of dying.
On 1.23 I can't full annex AQ without sitting on their provinces and waiting for AE to tick down. I imagine it would be impossible to eat through Persia or Levant without 5xing the game to wait for diplomats. Early game expansion has been effectively killed. I believe this was unnecessary, as there are ways to nerf AI Ottomans without making the human start significantly more difficult. Specifically, the AI nerf does not have to create disadvantages that are hardcapped for the player.
More neighbors means more AE, given the limited number of diplomats and improve relations modifiers, there is nothing a human player can do regardless of skill to overcome AE. On the other hand, if for example the neighbors are given a higher force limit and a bigger starting army, it would limit AI Ottomans all the same while allowing player Ottomans to overcome the same disadvantages through micro. I would much prefer the latter to the former.
I am not concerned with how accurately the Ottoman start ought to reflect history, nor how "OP" AI Ottomans are for other players. I only care that the start allows for the same variety in gameplay compared to pre 1.23. Right now the player Ottomans start has been nerfed disproportionately compared to its AI counterpart. What was once the only non-horde start that allowed for unfettered expansion from day 1 has turned into a tall start that's blocked off on all sides. This was not, in my opinion, what the detractors had in mind when they wanted the nerf in the first place.
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