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    Real Strategy Requires Cunning

bly08

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This is a walkthrough for up to this point:

eu4_75.png


Background:

I wanted to try an Ottoman HRE run that plays to instead of against the changes in the Middle Eastern region on 1.23. More tags means more alliances and AE, but also a bigger vassal swarm especially on the Euroasian border. More European provinces also means more Imperial Authority to be gained from adding them to the HRE. As a bonus, Georgian cores no longer have hostile core-creation cost as tradition.

The decision to re-form England removes all provinces from the HRE without checking for whether the player is the HRE emperor. This allows every province to be added twice. I would thus only have to pass around five reforms in order to revoke with 100 IA.

The limiting factor to this run is how quickly England can be full annexed. The limiting factor to killing England is AE. There are two new mechanics in 1.23 that help with managing AE - trade policies and the Muslim Hanbali school.

This run was played mostly on speeds 2 and 3 with frequent pauses. Every detail was microed as much as I was able to. Multiple restarts were required. The first 20-30 years need to unfold perfectly in order for the run to succeed.
 
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bly08

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In the first decades up to the fifth reform, AE needs to be meticulously managed. Every monthly tick should result in improved relations or added spy network. It is essential that every diplomat is doing something. The AI changes on this patch result in more alliances between minor nations. This means more war targets that need to be white peaced. Byzantium will almost always ally Serbia or an Anatolian minor before Dec. 11.

For the first months we improve relations with Najd for their Hanbali scholar. Taking all of Byzantium gives roughly 50-80 AE to the nearest Christian countries. As Albania and Wallachia are no longer easy targets due to their alliances, the AE modifier from Hanbali school is needed even for the first war.

Byzantium allied Serbia and Trebizond in this run. Both are quickly white peaced. When our troops are free, a 7k stack is sent to Ireland to no-cb Tyrone. The reason for Tyrone in particular is due to their location. They are the farthest Irish minor from the European continent which slightly reduces AE. They also border and have a claim on Ulster. In order to core English land there needs to be a cored province within range that can also be used to fabricate on Pale.

eu4_102.png

eu4_158.png
 
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bly08

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After moving the Ottoman capital to Constantinople, Dulkdadir is declared on to get a border with the Mamluks, who need to be crippled and truce locked early with the tech 4v3 advantage. Tyrone is vassalized. Note that the decision to move capital should be taken before declaring on Tyrone.

eu4_152.png
eu4_155.png
 
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bly08

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The two Catholic Bosnian provinces need to be taken asap to begin conversion. Serbia had just lost a war vs. Albania and Venice. In the middle of fighting the Mamluks we split off an army to attack Serbia.

eu4_101.png


Mamluks cannot be peaced out until Serbian/Bosnian provinces finish coring. We attack Candar in the meantime who are allied to Crimea.

eu4_105.png


A land bridge is made to Africa from the Mamluks peace deal. This was not the best decision as their Coptic provinces were not needed to convert later, nor was there enough time before revoking to get the ivory bonus. We attack the Orthodox tags in Circassia to let Sunni AE cool off and to get a border with Muscovy. The Dhimmi are assigned to the Bosnian provinces and unassigned a year later to spawn Catholic zealots. Merchants are placed in nodes where AE is highest to run the improved relations policy.

eu4_106.png


Religious Ideas are taken first for Deus Vult and conversion strength. The Catholic rebels of course went through Crimea to Anatolia instead of through the unblocked Bosphorus strait. QQ sends a CtA for an offensive war vs. Shirvan. The alliance is still needed for coalition management so we accept.

eu4_159.png


Unfortunately QQ's vassals are unsieging rebel occupied provinces and slowing down their progress. We help them end the war quickly.

eu4_57.png


AE has been carefully managed to this point. A coalition cannot form at any stage of the run.

eu4_58.png


Due to poor micro, we ran into zealot stacks a few times before retreating. Valuable provinces are unsieged before taking the decision to convert.

eu4_60.png
 
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bly08

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As a fellow Catholic nation we can now attack England with a reduced AE penalty. Muscovy is weak from fighting Novgorod. We start two wars on opposite ends of Europe.

eu4_63.png

eu4_62.png


Mil tech 6v5 for both wars. Dip tech 6 will be delayed to save points for Diplomatic IG. I believe I made a mistake in getting Diplo second instead of Admin as coring time turned out to be a bigger bottleneck than dip rep.

eu4_64.png


Three electors are allied a to get the necessary votes.

eu4_61.png


AE only allows us to take three provinces from England, which in turn only allows us to take two provinces from Muscovy. This was not great planning as the Muscovy war was a waste of manpower. The reason for taking high development English provinces instead of giving back France their cores is to encourage Scotland to attack England. The end goal is to cut down England's war score as quickly as possible.

eu4_65.png

eu4_66.png
 
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bly08

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We become Curia Controller in 1472. If this did not happen by 1480 the run would've been abandoned.

eu4_69.png


Friedrich III turns 60 soon. His chances of dying increase dramatically at age 61.

eu4_70.png


The Mamluk are declared on after the truce ends.

eu4_71.png


Tyrone was kept as a vassal for claims. However, I forgot to attack Clanricarde to white peace England. This delayed the revoke time by a few years.

eu4_72.png


After full occupying Mamluks, we loot while improving relations. Peacing out would decrease dip rep and lose votes. Two more electors are allied to guarantee the necessary backing.

eu4_161.png


One good thing about professionalism is that rolling generals also grants manpower. Since army tradition stayed close to 100 for the entire run, I would eventually get rid of any generals with less than 3 siege pips. Drilling was completely ignored.

eu4_74.png


Alas, Friedrich III passes in 1475. This needs to happen by 1480 or else there would not be enough time to rein in Italy. Dip points are now being stored in culture conversions.

eu4_163.png
 
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stnylan

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All very interesting
 

cliffo

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I never got my head around the culture conversion/point saving trick. How long can you let the culture conversion continue for before cancelling and not losing dip points?
 

bly08

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The Shadow Kingdom needs to be stopped to maintain IA. Milan are immediately allied so they can take two of the four required provinces from Venice. HRE members will add non-HRE provinces if the emperor's opinion of them is at least 100.

I made a mistake at this point by forgetting to warn every country in the HRE until a few years later. The patch also contains a bug that prevents the emperor from demanding unlawful territory.

eu4_67.png

eu4_68.png


Burgundy are in a war vs. England which they'll inevitably lose. If not, then we would declare for the inheritance.

eu4_169.png


Venice are allied to several trade league members who are quickly peaced out. Genoa is made to break their alliance with the Pope and to release Corsica as an extra prince.

eu4_168.png


Christian AE is still okay at this point.

eu4_170.png


The pope has 122 war score and is allied to France. Two wars are needed since the war score reduction idea will not be completed in time. We declare on Hungary with France and declare on the Pope after for Urbino only. This cuts their war score down to 105, which can be lowered further with claims and the war goal reduction.

eu4_171.png

eu4_172.png


Austria are forced to release Tirol in the separate peace for an extra prince.

eu4_165.png
 
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bly08

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As we have enough provinces to pass the third reform, the only war for the next few years will be vs. QQ for their Coptic provinces. Reforms can only be passed at low overextension.

The plan is to spawn Coptic zealots beforehand so the conversion decision can be taken right after the revoke. One province can be left occupied or else rebel demands cannot be accepted.

BI in 1481, a few provinces had already been taken by England, but nonetheless this lets us release three more HRE members and provides a CoT via Holland in the English Channel node.

eu4_117.png


The Pope re-allied France, so we would need to declare on England first and bring France in. Before this could happen France declare themselves and sends a CtA. We gladly accept as this would allow our own allies to be brought in vs. the Pope.

eu4_76.png

eu4_162.png


Unfortunately the third reform could not be passed beforehand.

eu4_164.png


Zealots now need to be spawned the old fashioned way without the Dhimmi.

eu4_176.png


Dip tech will be delayed until the Diplo idea group is filled

eu4_174.png

eu4_175.png

eu4_173.png


We ally Florence right before declaring so they can take two provinces off our hands

eu4_160.png


From the peace deal, Romagna and Umbria are given to Florence. The pope is vassalized as for some reason that was the only scenario that would not decrease Florence's trust. Rome could not be demanded and returned as two years are needed for Florence to core and add the provinces to HRE.

eu4_166.png


France makes peace with England for most of their cores and gives us Oxfordshire.

eu4_120.png


Florence adds Romagna three months before the deadline. The Shadow Kingdom is thwarted.

eu4_123.png

eu4_125.png
 
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bly08

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The goals for the next two decades are to annex as many low development Christian provinces as possible to pass the fifth reform.

Cleves is allied to England. We declare to shorten the truce with England and to drive up their war exhaustion for Scotland. Munster is released from Cleves.

eu4_77.png


Rebel occupation ruins our economy. More provinces are required for a Coptic majority so the zealots cannot be killed yet.

eu4_78.png


After white peacing England with their war exhaustion at 20, Scotland declares soon after.

eu4_131.png


They peace out for a nice chunk of clay.

eu4_133.png


England's war score is down to 150.

eu4_134.png


We declare on Muscovy to take their lowest development provinces and Lithuania after they had just broken to rebels.

eu4_81.png


Another quick war for more provinces to add. Unfortunately coring time has become by far the biggest bottleneck at this point. Every 100 OE of provinces needs 2 years to finish coring. We still declare multiple wars that cannot be ended at 100 war score in order to loot. Maintenance is lowered whenever possible.

eu4_80.png
 
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bly08

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Still sitting on Lithuania

eu4_138.png


Albania and Ryazan add up to another 100 OE.

eu4_139.png

eu4_137.png


More wars with Russian minors, and with England once our white peace truce ends. We declare without France in hopes they'll take a piece of English mainland. Two separate wars equal more war score lost for England. Only five provinces are needed for the tag shift decision and we already have them.

eu4_82.png


Both idea groups completed

eu4_83.png


Coptic rebels are killed after getting the required religious majority. Unfortunately allies could not be called in to do the job for us.

eu4_85.png


Colonialism conveniently spawns in Caux. Kent needs to have the institution present before we unally France.

eu4_86.png


The Protestant Reformation spawns in England. This is both convenient and inconvenient as we cannot use the next truce to force religion, but the location means that Protestantism will spread slower to Europe.

eu4_88.png


More looting at half maintenance while waiting for rebels to rise up.

eu4_89.png
 
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bly08

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After peacing out Ryazan and Albania, and with only a small bit of overextension to spare, we take a province from Provence to get a border with France from their southern coast.

eu4_90.png


After everything except for Draguignan finishes coring, every non-HRE province is added to pass the fifth reform. Doing so means that HRE allies of non-HRE countries cannot join a war vs. the emperor. We are thus free to declare on Poland and Hungary later for more low development provinces.

eu4_92.png


The entire HRE and Denmark have been warned every five years.

eu4_93.png


After Muscovy's truce ends, they're wiped and full occupied in five months.

eu4_94.png


Meanwhile France is still fighting England.

eu4_96.png


We declare on Poland and Hungary while waiting for Russian provinces to core. After full occupation we once again lower maintenance and watch rebel ticks.

eu4_95.png
 
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bly08

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France forces England to release Desmond which brings England's war score down to below 100 with the conquest CB. Otherwise we would have to wait for Scotland to finish off OPM England

eu4_98.png


After annexing England, every estate is removed from Anatolia and Balkans. Note that the 1504 cooldown of estate interactions were used for loyalty. Only admin points were demanded.

eu4_130.png


I might've removed one state too many. Only 50% stated development is needed to promote English to primary culture.

eu4_135.png


Re-forming England grants full cores.

eu4_177.png
eu4_179.png


Every province was removed from the HRE.

eu4_178.png


We have around 200 provinces at this point, the last reforms are passed easily.

eu4_182.png


Around five years ago Coptic zealots were spawned again, as Coptic no longer had a majority.

eu4_180.png
 
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More provinces are added. Revoking the Privilegia requires every prince to agree or else they are removed from the HRE. This will only be possible with 100 IA and some imperial grace.

eu4_182.png


But wait, first we have to release as many tags as possible for a proper vassal swarm WC. The combination below is for demonstration only. I have not yet taken the time to find the best setup. There needs to be a land bridge from the capital to every front, and some tags need to be released in the proper order for them to co-exist. The relationship depends on primary culture.

eu4_185.png


As some readers may have noticed. I made a mistake in the last ten years with my war targets. I should have annexed the hordes near the European/Tartary border. Horde ideas are the best for coring and are thus the best vassals to feed. This is especially the case after the horde unity changes in 1.23. Nonetheless, this will have to do for now.

eu4_188.png

eu4_189.png


Note that we have not converted yet as it would turn some princes against the reform.

Liberty desire of every HRE vassal is over 200. This is due to our not having added London to the HRE. England is thus not part of the HRE.

eu4_183.png

eu4_184.png


First we convert to Coptic.

eu4_190.png
 
Last edited:

bly08

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Then the capital is moved back to Constantinople.

eu4_194.png


Note that doing so does not lower government rank. The tooltip has not been updated.

eu4_195.png


Loyal vassals once more.

eu4_196.png


The vassals would then all be turned into marches with enforced religion for the Coptic bonuses and divert trade for the income. These are the first steps toward a vassal swarm WC in under 150 years.

The end:

eu4_75.png
 
Last edited:

stnylan

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Well that was, all in all, a very interesting demonstration.