1.23 Missionary strength

[bbqftw]

I'm not willing to agree with "terrible". We're not rocking generic pagan here. What did happen is that Islam got made into a humanist religion like Fetish and Hindu, and so far I would put it somewhere between those two, well behind Christianity but still better than most pagans, Confucian, and filler junk (in terms of in-game utility) like Sikh/Zoro/Judaism.

Humanist + high legalism + dhimmi estate is a respectable monarch point saving on tech. It's not going to beat 10% core cost reduction in the end game, but it's still better than fetish considering you can easily sit on +1 or +2 tolerance of both heretics and heathens and never convert anything.

every religious group not Christian is a humanist religion now

 

[qwertzuiop]

I'd say Buddhism is a more practical religion to play than Islam now. At least you can get +3% missionary strength fairly reliably in the early game, you have additional tolerance of heretics, you get a useful Diplomatic Reputation boost right at the start which will then change into a permanent +2.5% discipline. Apart from that, it is definitely worse. In fact, it is not really good at anything, but at least it gives you reliable bonuses early in the game when they matter the most.

 

[JusticeLighT]

religious idea + missionary strength advisor + +3 stability and ı can convert hindu buddhist catholic 35-45 month , orthodox, coptic 75-133 month is this normal ? you can only one propagate at the same time. You even defend such a ridiculous nerfs. you don't know anything about the game. Islam isn't a religion of humanism.

 

[bly08]

Coptic is now by far the best religion for blobbing. Hindu is second for an easier time at the cost of HRE/PUs.

 

[True_Heir_of_Rome]

Islam should be pretty good at both converting and tolerance. During the time period they did both very well compared to the other religions from what I understand. I'm just an history enthusiast, so my perspective is open to criticism

 

[Grif_E]

Islam as some unbreakable religious converting wave was crappy gameplay. Disrupting the the world conquest (dom/1faith, etc) flavor of the month is always an easy and near meaningless sacrifice for better gameplay overall.

 

[Rabid]

Islam as some unbreakable religious converting wave was crappy gameplay. Disrupting the the world conquest (dom/1faith, etc) flavor of the month is always an easy and near meaningless sacrifice for better gameplay overall.

Is it ok for Othodox and other religions? Your point would be valid if Islam had been an outlier in its strength at conversions but it was only competitive with the others (albeit at the higher end of the scale) compared to now where it's one of the weakest choices unless you get some random lucky string of events.

 

[bbqftw]

Islam as some unbreakable religious converting wave was crappy gameplay. Disrupting the the world conquest (dom/1faith, etc) flavor of the month is always an easy and near meaningless sacrifice for better gameplay overall.

Islam wasn't even top for that lol.

I would have rated Sunni behind Hindu / any non-protestant Christian in terms of strength lategame anyways.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

every religious group not Christian is a humanist religion now

I mean, you're not wrong, but I'd put it near the top of the second class citizen type faiths. Amongst ROTW faiths I'd take this over most of the other bonuses, probably only Hindu and Christianity win over this:



I forgot to boost dhimmi too, so it's decent, makes innovative look even worse by comparison lol.

Definitely a nerf though, since it forces your hand early with regards to idea groups and that was a big advantage of pre-1.23 Sunni to avoid.

 

[tapewormlondon]

Meh. I just played a Hormuz game. You start with only 20% unity or so. Conquered most Arabian peninsula, most provinces are heathens.

Been 50 years and I've managed to get 100% unity by going full mysticism, advisor and using the individual state decree thingy that gives you +1% missionary.

It wasn't that hard either. You have lots of options.

There were points in the session where I couldn't convert, but nothing enraging.