[1.2 e8a0] AI builds colony ships with Pre-Sentients

[OdinTGE]

Playing in a MP game yesterday we saw multiple instances of AI colonizing a planet that contained pre-sentients then building colony ships at that planet using the pre-sentient pops. They would then spread these pops all around their space.

Issues caused by this:

• Pre-sentient pops aren't actually in anybody's control so for starters the AI was wasting large amounts of resources on colony ships that were useless.
• The planets they colonized were now useless to them so they were also wasting entire planets.
• If you force an empire to abandon planet via war goal they will not purge the pre-sentients on the planet. They only purge any non-pre-sentients on the planet. The planet remains in their pseudo-control after the war.
• If you acquire the pre-sentients home world and uplift them you can uplift all of the pops the AI has spread to any planet you control. If any of the pre-sentient pops are on worlds you don't control you cannot uplift those pops and they become un-upliftable.

 

[RogerWilco]

Auch that sounds quite broken.

 

[Shadoon]

A similar thing happened to me in 1.1. I conquered a system, destroyed every building and purged everybody on the planet cause I didnt want to keep it.
But in that system there was another planet with pre-sentients which now belonged to me. I have been looking for this planet everywhere because it does not show up on your planet list, yet I still received the penalty for having too many planets.
It was really weird. I owned the planet, but not really, cause I couldnt build anything. The only solution was to purge them as well I think

 

[iquabakaner]

I have the same problem. That makes the colony uncapturable by ground forces as well.

 

[Woopzilla]

'Colony' pre-sentients also break the game rules in that they can become leaders: Link to report

It's been reported a few times but I don't think paradox has picked up on it at all, so hopefully they will notice this thread.

It also breaks the sector AI's behaviour: Link to thread

Another thread with saves: https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...izing-with-presentients.945844/#post-21389319

 

[smjjames]

*bump*

Really hope this gets fixed because it severely gimps the AI empires.

 

[jose2534]

This explains the pre-sentients in a lot of the plannets of my rival.

 

[Seomis]

This is now my favorite bug.

 

[ForzaA]

Thank you for the report and discussion.

Sadly, we seem to be unable to "catch" the AI in the act - while it's obvious something is going wrong with the AI and pre-sentient pops, we've so far been unable to find HOW this is happening.

Any saves showing the AI in the process of creating a new pre-sentient-colonised planet (such as, while owning a colony ship with presentients) would be greatly appreciated.

 

[smjjames]

Thank you for the report and discussion.

Sadly, we seem to be unable to "catch" the AI in the act - while it's obvious something is going wrong with the AI and pre-sentient pops, we've so far been unable to find HOW this is happening.

Any saves showing the AI in the process of creating a new pre-sentient-colonised planet would be greatly appreciated.

I've only encountered them LONG after they've first started colonizing with pre-sentients, so, it would have to take some observing in observe mode. One theory is that they're able to colonize a planet with pre-sentients on it in the first place.

I could give it an attempt, but theres no guarantee that I actually will be able to.

Edit: Are modded saves okay? As in you can just look at the code? I'm not running anything that messes with the pre-FTL civs and pre-sapient critters.

 

[ForzaA]

Edit: Are modded saves okay? As in you can just look at the code? I'm not running anything that messes with the pre-FTL civs and pre-sapient critters.

Depends on what is modded (ie. would it mechanically affect the game or not) - but it's generally worth a shot to have a look at it in any case.

 

[smjjames]

Depends on what is modded (ie. would it mechanically affect the game or not) - but it's generally worth a shot to have a look at it in any case.

Nothing that affects colonization, no, most of them are cosmetic. I meant can you just look at the code and figure it out from there and not have to load up the save?

 

[ForzaA]

Sadly, it's not quite that easy - code is in place that should prevent the AI from colonizing with Pre-Sentients. Evidently, that code is avoided somehow (or doesn't quite cover all cases)
The question that we need to answer (and so far, haven't been able to) is how/why/where. If we have a situation where the AI *is about to* violate the (intended) game rules, we can look at the code in action, and hopefully catch how/where it fails to be caught by the pre-sentient colonisation prevention.

While investigating, I have found all sorts of suspect behaviour that MAY be involved, but so far, no real "smoking gun".

 

[smjjames]

So, basically you need something that is pure stock/vanilla?

Also, would be nice if the species in galaxy menu showed the species in observe mode.

Going to try and give an observation mode game a try.

 

[smjjames]

@ForzaA Caught one! This is on a pure vanilla save, no mods enabled.

The empire in question is the Till'Lynesi (medium blue, upper left, 9:30 position approx, player 13), the first save is about 9 days before the colony ship gets built and it always makes a beeline for Edaisch II, which is inhabited by the presapient species. The second save is shortly before it gets colonized.

I'm pretty sure the root cause is simply being able to colonize the planet that has presapients in the first place because I can do that as a player as well.

Theres another empire that may also do the same, Combine of Gratil or something, but it hasn't yet.

 

[ForzaA]

While I appreciate the saves you provide - being able to colonize a planet with pre-sentients on them is NOT the issue (and indeed, both player and AI should have that option)

It's the colonising with a pre-sentient pop/building a colony ship that contains a pre-sentient pop that is the problem, and while that would (probably) be avoided by not allowing the colonisation of planets with pre-sentients on them, that's not the intended design.

 

[smjjames]

Ohh, I misunderstood what you meant earlier then, sorry. I'm not sure how to catch them in the act other than just observing them for some time.

 

[Seomis]

Does the AI ever resettle pops? Pre-sentients can certainly be resettled, so maybe that is what's usually happening?

 

[jose2534]

I have a save with the IA having one plannet colonice with pre-sentient pops, give me a week and I will upload it (I don't have internet in my new house and that is why I wasnt able to do this, and I will probably having it in a copuple of days if everythings go well).

But I have to say, this is not the "smooking gun", just the post fire and concecuences of it... When I have internet I will be hunting the bug and looking if I can found it.