1.2.1 has gone a bit overboard with the Ryuku exploit prevention

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OhioAstro

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I am trying to get used to 1.2, but I think it'll end up being less fun than it was. My playstyle is to go out and conquer stuff, and the gameplay currently is like conquering is equal to exploitation. The player (I) is treated like a bad bad schoolboy if he attempts to do what is fun for him.

Well, gotta play some more to really know. Maybe it helps replayability, but each game will be the same: walking on tiptoes while sneaking in a quick conquest and apologizing for it for the next 3 decades.

You're treated as bad if you do the missions that the game suggests that you do.
 

Mann42

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I don't have fun with 1.2 without modding AE and AI attitudes. They swung the balance too far, and now playing normally feels punishing instead of fun. High risk, no reward is not an enjoyable gameplay experience.

I got all the baseline Ironman achievements. I don't need to punish myself to get the rest. WC was so tedious that DDRJake even said it wasn't worth. It's even less worth it now.
 

Nyvis

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1) The loss of country cores, like Brittany is extreme. They and many others don't exist. The list has almost nothing to break France up. The problem is there is absolutely NO way to EVER win even though I kick the royal crap out of them. If I am willing to incur the huge AE/OE hits I can absorb provinces in France, and that would get me maybe half over the last 100 years of the game with the whole world at war with me, so that is impossible.

I think this is a bug. Cores on provinces from their main culture should never disappear. Pretty sure I read it like that. And yes, the cores disappearance is ridiculous.
 

Incompetent

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The main nerf to player power as such is the end of PU cheese, which was definitely imba in 1.1. Apart from that, most of the changes have been about making the AI smarter, so the AI countries don't just line up to be conquered one after the other. (That includes changes to AE, which is really about alerting the AI to who they should be scared of.) I don't see how this is a bad thing. The AI doesn't specifically gang up on the player, it just responds to what it sees as threats, whether human or AI, and forms alliances that it thinks will further its goals. These are things the human player should do as well, and the human player has big advantages, because he's not fooled by 'opinion modifiers' and can actually see the big picture.
 

dgrane

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I would't mind conquest being more difficult if there was something else to do. I could have fun in ck2 without going maximum hitler and trying to conquer the world, instead I could engage in court politics or vassal wrangling. The same with vicky2, there I could industrialize or try and become communist or something. But there just isn't enough to do in eu3. If your not at war, why exactly wouldn't you crank speed to 5 and wait for numbers to go up or down? Trade is pretty much fire and forget, colonization isn't viable for a lot of nations and not really all that engaging. There aren't enough attention sinks if your not at war so it gets really frustrating when they enact arbitrary barriers to it and basically punish you for doing something besides watch your monarch points tick up
 

OhioAstro

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The main nerf to player power as such is the end of PU cheese, which was definitely imba in 1.1. Apart from that, most of the changes have been about making the AI smarter, so the AI countries don't just line up to be conquered one after the other. (That includes changes to AE, which is really about alerting the AI to who they should be scared of.) I don't see how this is a bad thing. The AI doesn't specifically gang up on the player, it just responds to what it sees as threats, whether human or AI, and forms alliances that it thinks will further its goals. These are things the human player should do as well, and the human player has big advantages, because he's not fooled by 'opinion modifiers' and can actually see the big picture.

No. Player power was hit hard across the board; please don't pretend otherwise. Causus belli were made far more expensive; peaceful ways to grow were made extremely hard (e.g. personal unions are now rare and random); coalitions formed much faster and last longer; manpower drains were accelerated; early battles made far more bloody; I could go on. If Paradox is setting out to antagonize new players this is a marvelous start.
 

Incompetent

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Causus belli were made far more expensive

'Expensive' = 'the AI will now actually pay attention if I take a bunch of provinces'. With the old CBs that gave 25% AE, it felt like you were doing a Jedi mind trick on the AI. The internal burden on your country (i.e. monarch point costs, overextension) hasn't changed much as far as I can make out, and coring times have actually got shorter. Claim cheese has been weakened, but again, that's fair enough as fabricated claims are supposed to be dodgy.

peaceful ways to grow were made extremely hard (e.g. personal unions are now rare and random)

As they should be - unless we're talking about Steppe Hordes, countries with no heir apparent didn't just become wild free-for-alls where anyone with a big enough army could declare himself King.

coalitions formed much faster and last longer

Only if you're being too aggressive and not using enough diplomats to improve relations. Nobody joins a coalition unless they have an AE modifier against you. (The coalition situation used to be bad with Border Friction, but that has been nerfed now.)

manpower drains were accelerated; early battles made far more bloody

Use mercs more and build up your manpower (army buildings are strong!). The AI suffers from manpower drain as well.


Basically all the complaints I have seen are not "my country feels weak compared to real history", but rather "I can't blob all over Europe in the first 100 years like I used to" or "I can't turn this random OPM into a superpower". The question is, why do you think you should be able to blob all over Europe?
 

beezneez

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What I've noticed is usually people complain about the games being to easy. Then everyone plays a mod that makes everything more difficult and historical. So paradox basically just did that with a patch, and everyone is pissed.
 
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lucaluca

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It was about time they removed the stupid exploit of releasing non existing countries to break up enemies... Even when Austria or France or Sweden lost badly wars, they were always able to recover, and that's how it should be all to make the end game fun
 

Evie HJ

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I think cores vanishing is a good thing. There should definitely be a time limit to how late in the game you can bring the freaking minors back. Not to mention of course that the minors set-up was ridiculously unbalanced (France can be broken into a gazillion piece, but Castille and England can at best lose a peripheral piece or two).

It was cheese, and much as I love cheese, I'm glad this cheese is gone.
 

zxc

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What I've noticed is usually people complain about the games being to easy. Then everyone plays a mod that makes everything more difficult and historical. So paradox basically just did that with a patch, and everyone is pissed.

Pretty much. Paradox has made great gains in the longevity of the single player game in 1.2. I just hope they don't throw it away in subsequent patches because of a vocal minority of beginners. Use the AI difficulty settings, the player bonus, and pick more solid nations, guys.
 
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lucaluca

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I think cores vanishing is a good thing. There should definitely be a time limit to how late in the game you can bring the freaking minors back. Not to mention of course that the minors set-up was ridiculously unbalanced (France can be broken into a gazillion piece, but Castille and England can at best lose a peripheral piece or two).

It was cheese, and much as I love cheese, I'm glad this cheese is gone.

Actually I am surprised as for how long it took them, I think it was there since EUII
 

unmerged(780209)

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I dislike so many of the changes made to 1.2 that I have zero intention of even installing it!

I hate all the player nerfs, and I didn't even use any of the PU exploits, and didn't even know about most of the others until I read about them online. It just seems like that stuff should be possible. You don't have to do it. But, if you want to win through cheese?

Well, it's a GAME, right?

Well, if they keep making improvements to the AI performance, I might install 1.3 when it comes out.

Right now, I'm just going to keep the original game settings.

The extreme AE malus and disappearing cores seems like two bad changes to me.
The question is, why do you think you should be able to blob all over Europe?

Because it's a game? Hello!

If you are going to be as limited as countries historically were, and every game mechanic is nerfed to keep you down, where's the fun in that?
 
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The Blood Eagle

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4. Rework the score system so late bloomers stand a chance. It sucks when the same big countries always win, and often in the same order.

I would like to see conquest and victories add to your score, so that growing minor countries have a way to play catch up seeing as they get nil for points for the first half of the game.
 

Mailman9

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When I first started playing EU, my joy was finding my own goals. At first they were simple, (Form Great Britain, dominate new world) and as my skill increased I could allow myself new and exciting goals, until you are good enough to do something as stupid as the 3 mountains. The score system in a completely silly system that only rewards world powers. Instead of being allowed to have fun as an OPM, the game's incredible versatility is almost self-limited to the "interesting" choices like Muscovy, England, France, Spain, etc.
 

zxc

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When I first started playing EU, my joy was finding my own goals. At first they were simple, (Form Great Britain, dominate new world) and as my skill increased I could allow myself new and exciting goals, until you are good enough to do something as stupid as the 3 mountains. The score system in a completely silly system that only rewards world powers. Instead of being allowed to have fun as an OPM, the game's incredible versatility is almost self-limited to the "interesting" choices like Muscovy, England, France, Spain, etc.

Nothing has changed... The score system is as unimportant as ever. If that is what stops you from 'having fun as an OPM' then it's your own fault.
 
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