1.16: The Patch That Destroyed Russian Culture

[Omegador]

Well Cossack rebellion can happen if polish Cossack estate rebels, for good or ill game cant perfectly simulate history and principality sized cultures aren't really logical from either gameplay (too small) or historical (too similar compared to other cultural splits) standpoints. If they wanted historical Zaporozhian rebelion they could have achieved it with events (and I'm not sure if they exist or not).

Why split Russian into cultures based on Principalities then? Why not split Turkish into Ramazan, Karaman, Ottoman, Caldar, Dulkadir, etc? Why not split Polish into Krakow, Marzovian, Lublin? This is obviously getting ridiculous, "Culture X is too large" so let's just split it all based on city states then. Heck, Greek is obviously OP, we need Athenian, Makedon, and Spartan to kick it up a notch.

 

[Ternega]

Why split Russian into cultures based on Principalities then? Why not split Turkish into Ramazan, Karaman, Ottoman, Caldar, Dulkadir, etc? Why not split Polish into Krakow, Marzovian, Lublin? This is obviously getting ridiculous, "Culture X is too large" so let's just split it all based on city states then. Heck, Greek is obviously OP, we need Athenian, Makedon, and Spartan to kick it up a notch.

The names are a flop, I agree, but split itself had to happen in my opinion because "accept russian -> eat russians" was too good a strategy. I personally think they should have stuck with broad generalizations, like Nothern/Southern Russian and Eastern/Western Ruthenian (yeah yeah I know it makes little sense either but again - gameplay). But at this point I should probably get off the forums since I'm posting this for thrid time hehe.

 

[Oldpara]

I am eating Russia right now, and its so tasty with one culture!. So much ducats With 1.6 I would not accept even Novogrodian I believe as too small. So I can support Omegador - don't split it! Don't ruin lives of conqerors! Severe winters and endless manopower as an obstacle is enough

 

[ThePatriotOfDreumel]

Russian had more development than Lithuania; it was by far the biggest culture in the world, only closely followed by Lombard in 1.12, which had been completely crushed. Furthermore, when accepted, losing it was practically impossible. People here are freaking out about a huge culture being split into 3 smaller, while Lombard was split into 7 IIRC. Calm down: this is about balance in a game, not an attack on Russia and it's people. There are cultures that are fabricated (Flemish: 20th century thing) and today there are regional differences in Russia, don't believe everything RT says .

 

[FleetingRain]

Boy, the best thing about new cultures in Europe is watching all the nationalists getting flared.

 

[Alerias]

I see no reason, either practical nor historical much less gameplay related to break down Grand Rus culture like this either myself.

 

[Thrownman]

One could argue Russian culture was gone long before this patch. What ever happened to good old Muscovitification?

 

[SignedName]

Remember, gameplay would suffer from that. Making Ruthenia impossible to accept isn't a good thing, since it would nerf Lithuania, and consequently Poland, thus sending Russia/Ottomans on a rampage in Eastern Europe.

I thought people wanted to nerf Lithuania/PLC?

 

[zemuzil]

First they butchered tatars now this ...

 

[Ternega]

I thought people wanted to nerf Lithuania/PLC?

Yeah but that would also nerf anyone trying to conquer PLC/Lithuania. Which isnt good. And they are nerfing Lithuanian dev anyway.

First they butchered tatars now this ...

They did it to every oversized culture, in a lot of those cases it didn't make much sense historically either but there was less fuss because.. well because they at least sounded plausible.

 

[Incompetent]

If you're going to do things in terms of linguistic diversity then sure, the Russian language area was already quite homogeneous in 1444, similar to England. But if we did cultures consistently on that basis, we'd end up with a crazy culture map: for instance, there's more linguistic diversity in the Caucasus than there is in the whole of Western Europe (even including anomalies like Basque).

 

[Nico-izo]

If you're going to do things in terms of linguistic diversity then sure, the Russian language area was already quite homogeneous in 1444, similar to England. But if we did cultures consistently on that basis, we'd end up with a crazy culture map: for instance, there's more linguistic diversity in the Caucasus than there is in the whole of Western Europe (even including anomalies like Basque).

Oh, yes please! I really want to see 200-province Caucasus mess constantly at war everybody-vs-everybody.

 

[PiriReis]

2. Or, split it up into more city centered cultures if that's where you're headed. Just to make it more diverse, if you really hate our unity.

They dont hate your unity, they just lack consistency in these matters.

 

[The-Doc]

Culture split for Novgorod sure. A lot of it was political, but there were differences between the north and the south. But what is Ryazanian (please change name!) supposed to be?

 

[ahyangyi]

Agreed. Russia had 200k troops during Napoleonic invasion, and Napoleon&Friends had over 700k. In fact, Russia relied on mercenaries for quite a while before getting solid standing armies. It's China that really should have all the quantity ideas, as their troops are usually quite crappy in this era. I'm not upset. Just stereotypical. And, offtopic.

What's the random nationalist pride against China here? Just because Russia was defeated by Qing with a larger army between 1652-1689? (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-Russian_border_conflicts)
Qing's border was significantly larger than Ming's. I'm not sure how this can happen if the troops are crappy.

Oh, and furthermore the Chinese culture was also divided a few patches ago. While I agree with the southern ones (both culturally and linguistically, especially Hakka), the northern half of China was also culturally uniform enough that a split was unwarranted.

 

[FleetingRain]

Culture split for Novgorod sure. A lot of it was political, but there were differences between the north and the south. But what is Ryazanian (please change name!) supposed to be?

South Russian, it seems.

 

[Vaximillian]

The split is nonsensical. There was never strong regional identity in Russia. All the principalities didn't last as long as their analogues in France, Germany or Italy in order to produce „cultures“ really different from the main one.

Also, Ryazanian, for goodness' sake. Ryazanian, ohmygodwhy.

 

[DmUa]

Boy, the best thing about new cultures in Europe is watching all the nationalists getting flared.

-

what simple fact that from historical point of view russian culture split have nothing to do with... a... history... have to do with nationalism?

 

[Kapitalisti]

I don't mean to offend anyone and apologies if someone still gets angry, but it's funny how most of these outrages about culture stuff always involve some flavor of Slavs...

 

[zemuzil]

I don't mean to offend anyone and apologies if someone still gets angry, but it's funny how most of these outrages about culture stuff always involve some flavor of Slavs...

West slavic culture butchery is an example of said favoritism