1.16: The Patch That Destroyed Russian Culture

[Kapitalisti]

Ryazan is the new Hansa/Memel hyperculture from another plane of existence

Obviously the only proper way to depict Russian culture(s) is an Ulm-style 9 dimensional tesseract.

 

[DmUa]

yes, it isn't defined as a source, I edited the post before your reply, excuse me.

So you're saying that all these migrants moved to some other place such as france or poland and back?

- by your terms even if those people existed they indeed would have move in the next "province". Problem is that that space was mostly empty, including territories of Khanates ( with exception of trade hubs ofc ). Im merely saying that most of land mass acquired by Russia from picture posted by my beloved bratushka from Serbia is naked step and frozen wastes.

Looked out the window. Didn't saw any tundra or steppe.

- it depends on were you live obviously.

 

[Itchel]

- by your terms even if those people existed they indeed would have move in the next "province". Problem is that that space was mostly empty, including territories of Khanates ( with exception of trade hubs ofc ). Im merely saying that most of land mass acquired by Russia from picture posted by my beloved bratushka from Serbia is naked step and frozen wastes.

- it depends on were you live obviously.

Russia is not mostly steppes, it's mostly pine forests.
It's not hard to admit you're wrong you know, Even if you're a migrating populace it doesn't make you disapear off the face of the earth until you settle down.

 

[DmUa]

Russia is not mostly steppes, it's mostly pine forests.
It's not hard to admit you're wrong you know, Even if you're a migrating populace it doesn't make you disapear off the face of the earth until you settle down.

- even easier if you would provide credible sources for such a claims.

 

[Itchel]

- even easier if you would provide credible sources for such a claims.

There's sources everywhere about that fact, Google earth, Even europa universalis calls these provinces "forests or thick forests" JUST SEARCH IT UP i'm not your google.

EDIT:

It's like there's an elephant in the room.

 

[E. Cephalopoda]

That is also true, It's a lot of pine forests meaning there's plenty of cover for hunting deer or other wildlife such as racoons or etc..

Sure, most of north-western Russia is a hilly plain, covered by pine forests. Nice place for a hunting. So, most of local tribes was a hunters, not a nomads. So, they lived in a small settlements near the rivers and it's tribe structure was similar to neighbour slavs. But climate of the north-western Russia is harsh enough, even in coastal regions, and it's very hard to obtain any other resources except fish, wood and fur here, without developed infrastructure and large human resources. That's why scattered ugro-finnic tribes wasn't so much successful, and their population didn't grow so fast as in the realm of slavs.

 

[Itchel]

Sure, most of north-western Russia is a hilly plain, covered by pine forests. Nice place for a hunting. So, most of local tribes was a hunters, not a nomads. So, they lived in a small settlements near the rivers and it's tribe structure was similar to neighbour slavs. But climate of the north-western Russia is harsh enough, even in coastal regions, and it's very hard to obtain any other resources except fish, wood and fur here, without developed infrastructure and large human resources. That's why scattered ugro-finnic tribes wasn't so much successful, and it's population didn't grow so fast as in the realm of slavs.

Fish, whales and other sources of fat sustained northern populations amazingly, I mean just look at the inuits in greenland, thanks for more material bud.

 

[DmUa]

There's sources everywhere about that fact, Google earth, Even europa universalis calls these provinces "forests or thick forests" JUST SEARCH IT UP i'm not your google.t's like an elephant in the room.

- its not sources, lets refresh - you claim that you have data on population of said territories that you call "provinces", you even said exact number - 500-1k in each "province" irl. Please show me proofs that such population existed in such a numbers in those "provinces" of yours. And no google map are not source to anything but geography. Sheesh.

 

[DanubianCossak]

You should probably edit that post mate, too harsh for this forum.

 

[Itchel]

You should probably edit that post mate, too harsh for this forum.

May be, The least it will do is get me a warning and possibly get the post deleted, After all it'd be my 1st forum offense

 

[DmUa]

I just told you, You ignorant american,

- im not american, im ukrainian.

I posted logic and math as my reasons for it,

- no you not.

That is on par with a source (IF you know how math and logic work).

- no its not.

Google earth shows that is clearly pine forests, as you can see, if you zoom in you can see the tree-tops in all that dark green shit.

- how is that relevant to discussed topic?

You won the award for being thick skulled, congrats now stop letting emotion and pride cloud your brain and
Either admit you're wrong, or stop defending your wrong assumptions.

- cool, so you cant prove your words and it is me thick skulled, classy.

 

[DmUa]

He went and done it, that is sheer glittery ignorance

- lol

ignorant none-theless,

- i doubt you understand meaning of that word.

did, read 1 page back.

- nope, you did not.

it is yes if know how to math

- on what numbers your math based? You said yourself that you dont have any data in question.

different topic, you were claming that russia is all steppes.

- err...not... re read what i wrote.

mhm, I can't prove there were only 30 people per province, I assume they just popped out of thin air in 2010 then.

- what people? In what province? What is a province? LoL its the same as your karelian thread, you mixing up reality and game and then throw some wiki facts and pretend that you know what you talking about.

 

[E. Cephalopoda]

- im not american, im ukrainian.

- no you not.
- no its not.
- how is that relevant to discussed topic?
- cool, so you cant prove your words and it is me thick skulled, classy.

https://vk.com/doc376675_291545916?hash=72f3433d4406f25339&dl=dab4a63b9e075b97a8

Here is an good old book, it contains a few info about natives population amount. Read it if you interested.

And, we should really stop this fruitless branch of discussion and back to paradox' negligent attitude to details of history.
Don't forget, some people "studying history" only by playing grand strategies.

 

[DmUa]

well said, although in my case I was motivated to learn about history by the game, Not that i study the game intensively, but instead on other sources.

- well, you failed.

I can't blame you, it's a shame you don't speak proper english, everything i have said has been completely misunderstood :\

- lame excuses are lame. In your own words - It's not hard to admit you're wrong you know. But sadly you failed, and now the only things you can do is resort to lame ad hominems.

 

[giant_sloth]

https://vk.com/doc376675_291545916?hash=72f3433d4406f25339&dl=dab4a63b9e075b97a8

You post book from vk here? In russian?

 

[DanubianCossak]

You post book from vk here? In russian?

Some of us can read Russian, just saying. Not that im gonna read that particular one though.

 

[E. Cephalopoda]

You post book from vk here? In russian?

It was the first direct link to this book I found. I don't care what source it had.
Well, anyway, nothing wrong in giving a link to book in russian in a russian-related thread.

 

[al.gb]

Discussion going in the wrong way, i see.

Let's take a look at split russian culture from other side. Now russian culture become accepted very fast, i undestand that point. But until Russia exist, player nor AI can't change culture and lands can be reclaimed at war or rebellion. With patch 1.16 there's no longer primary country for russian culture. This will make it easy to conquer the whole region by the parts. Also, to change culture as needed.

Splitting didn't stop player nor AI from conquering russian region and didn't solve a problem. In fact, this just lead to Russia will be created even rarer than it is now. Weak AI just can't handle with increased unrest and -15% tax/production. That means none third power in eastern europe besides Sweden and PLC.

One of the ways to fix that is changing second russian tradition from useless "- 20 infantry cost" to "- 20 accepted culture threshold". It will make Moscow/Russia more stable in early game.
And more historical.

 

[Xellos Slayer]

I've read this thread up until the 5th page...
While I generally don't find it either historical or rational to split up Russian culture at all (and especially like this), this is not a nerf. Though, I wonder how much will Russian AIs suffer now. With this culture diversity.
Also, if you want to add (lol) Ryazanian culture (which was located in Ryazan of all things), why does it eats Smolenskian land? OP is right about "lets diversify it completely".
Where are Volhynian and Kievan cultures? Where is Chernigovian? Ruthenians should be brought to the same state as Russians. And, no, Lithuania _should have_ problems with them. Khmelnitsky' Uprising did start under PLC, but the bomb was there always. We need more consistency.

Also! Stop about this pseudo-linguistic jokes about Novgorodian dialect. Yes, there were one. No, dialect isn't enough to split culture.
If it was enough, then there should be Kansai, Tohoku, Hokkaido, et cetera cultures in Japan.
And, no, difference between Chinese "dialects" is closer to a differences between languages. If anything, they should be considered as different languages with the same logoforms. Close to what we have in Slavic languages. Before you quote "dialects as a way to culture split", please, read more stuff about it.

Lastly! Why Uralic is out of the picture of "Russian region cultures?" It should be added there by all means. Some of tartars as well

 

[giant_sloth]

Where are Volhynian and Kievan cultures? Where is Chernigovian? Ruthenians should be brought to the same state as Russians. And, no, Lithuania _should have_ problems with them. Khmelnitsky' Uprising did start under PLC, but the bomb was there always. We need more consistency.

There's no point in splitting Ruthenian - if you do, you'll have several cultures of 2-3 provinces. New "russian" cultures will still be big