1.16 Estonian is wrong.

[Homusubi]

I know that the last thing any of you want is more people moaning about 1.16 culture changes. But... on this one, you're just wrong.

If you ask any Estonian (except Russian-Estonians obviously!) what countries they relate to most other than Estonia itself, the answer is usually Sweden or Finland, and not Latvia or Lithuania! And yet, Paradox, you've put Estonian in the Baltic group, presumably as a geographical convenience and because you seem as if you want to remove any cultural groups that could be even in the slightest bit linguistic.

I understand that culture doesn't equal language, but I also know that it doesn't equal geography. Please reconsider this. (Oh, and the handling of the Estonia region in general is a bit off - I see the borders have been changed so as to make Parnu Latvian?)

 

[Moarice]

Estonia into Nordic? What is this heresy?!
That's like letting Poland into space!

 

[GeneralPetrov]

I'm not necessarily saying your wrong since I don't know much about the Baltic states, but do you actually have any evidence that Estonia was culturally more similar to Scandinavia than it was to the Baltic states in 1444?

 

[hordekips]

I think the point he is trying to make is that we are culturally more similar to the finns than to the balts... especially during the era EUIV takes place in

 

[BlackEagle78]

Estonia into Nordic? What is this heresy?!
That's like letting Poland into space!

Let's not make memes the reason for game mechanics.

 

[neondt]

I don't know much about Estonia or its culture, but one potential gameplay reason to put Estonian in the Scandinavian group would be that it encourages historical Swedish expansion into the Baltic.

 

[Sian]

The problem with claiming that Estonia is part of the Nordic countries, is that the Nordic countries doesn't agree ... While i can't deny that Estonia might well relate best to Sweden and Finland, neither of those countries relate with Estonia as other than someone 'across the lake', and Norway and Denmark relates with them even less

 

[Vetgirig]

Today the Baltic countries is associated members of the Nordic council. And at least in sweden there are many who would like to see them as full members. So from swedens standpoint they are considered part of our common nordic heritage.

 

[Thaif]

Personally not happy with the eradication of the Finno-Ugric group, but I can see their reasoning on it. It's a mistake to equate present day ideas, or ones decades earlier, to a period of history that's 561 years removed from our current time-traveling selves.

Funnily enough Finland(or more accurately the area of modern Finland) should in the south to south-east be Baltic/Slavic, in the west to north-west Swedish/Sami, and east to north-east Karelian/Slavic/Sami.

And then you'd need to add the local cultures/dialects(of which there are about 5-6 prominent ones).

At this point many might question what is Finnish "culture"? Exactly. Modern cultures today are a layering of influences, as cultures have always been.

To end this pointless yapping on an actual point; EU4 handles cultures about as well as a wolf handles a rabbit. To get close enough to representing Estonias cultural influences they could have kept the old culture system but slapped the new one on top. Tada! Baltic Finno-Ugrians.

Think of it as having a "root culture" but added to it the inevitable influences of the world. IDK I'm just rambling...

 

[BrotherM]

Shouldn"t be Estonia and Latvia in this period more or less associated with German culture? This are was in fact colonised by Germans (former TO, Livonian Order lands), german influences were strong there.

Duchy of Courland and Semigalia (the only prominent country in this area in this period) at least to me seems like some quasi-german state in eastern Baltic.
Just asking, I am not too much interested in history of Baltic lands.

 

[Tacticus101]

A great deal of the Nordic ties come from the close relations, wars and occupation by Sweden or Denmark, so I don't think that is a fair argument. Certainly they are not the same people as the Danes and Norwegians.

If we are being realistic however, there should be a separate culture group containing the Finnish, Karalian and Estonian cultures. I imagine they are currently divided up for gameplay reasons though.

 

[LikeNothing]

Estonia into Nordic? What is this heresy?!

Xaxaxaxa Eesti so cute thinking it's Nordic and relevant

 

[ahyangyi]

A great deal of the Nordic ties come from the close relations, wars and occupation by Sweden or Denmark, so I don't think that is a fair argument. Certainly they are not the same people as the Danes and Norwegians.

If we are being realistic however, there should be a separate culture group containing the Finnish, Karalian and Estonian cultures. I imagine they are currently divided up for gameplay reasons though.

I think this is exactly what the pre-1.16 setup is about. But apparently 1.16 changed the philosophy of treating culture mostly from a linguistic angle.
In the short term this change is probably justified. Some Estonian land was held by Denmark too I believe, so considering the historical Danish and Swedish ruleship OP's proposal could work.

In the long run, we need a more sophisticated culture system. The current system is being stretched so much that it can barely handle now.