1.08 Beta6

[PB-DK]

i tried the beta6 with everything, so far i am appalled at what has been done to china, letting china annex every single warlord in 36 is so ahistorical it bleeds my eyes just watching it, what the fuck happened to realism?

I would prefer China to stay poorer if possible, and if the Japanese AI is too strong, then reduce the Japanese land units. Is this feasible?

that would make absolutely no sense what so ever other than ensuring that japan will never be interesting or challenging, so be honest this would be absolute the most stupid approach to the far east theather that could be implemented.

what needs to be done, is to increase the resources in china and in the warlords, ensure that Yunnan and guanxi has at least 15 IC to supply and support their armies so that they can actually use their armies to defend against the japanese, actually use the ai minor exped force to balance out the forces

 

[froglegs]

Maybe move the activation of the armour (unit) model(s) to a later doctrine, so that the ai can only build tank brigades until the usefulness of combined arms, i.e. fully integrated armoured divisions, is proven by the Sichelschnitt?

Back in the HOI2 days, the Total Realism Project did as you suggest as I recall.

I want to repeat here again that it would be really nice to have the ability to add more than one brigade attachment to a ground division. It gets really expensive, but it would be about the only way to recreate what a relatively small USA army of ~90 divisions could do in the war. The misc. file editing could make this a mod option.

I have been working on trying to get the USA contribution to the war effort into a more relastic simulation and this would help a whole lot.

 

[Pang Bingxun]

i tried the beta6 with everything, so far i am appalled at what has been done to china, letting china annex every single warlord in 36 is so ahistorical it bleeds my eyes just watching it, what the fuck happened to realism?

You are refering to the case of a human played Japan. In that case the warlords are annexed a bit earlier.

that would make absolutely no sense what so ever other than ensuring that japan will never be interesting or challenging, so be honest this would be absolute the most stupid approach to the far east theather that could be implemented.

what needs to be done, is to increase the resources in china and in the warlords, ensure that Yunnan and guanxi has at least 15 IC to supply and support their armies so that they can actually use their armies to defend against the japanese, actually use the ai minor exped force to balance out the forces

There are the 2 possible approaches. Either give CHI and it subunits more ic and resources. Or make CHI annex the warlords that were more or less part of the Republic. Both approaches have their downsides. In order to ensure a good coordination of military forces and having an acceptable research it is imo needed to model CHI as a united nation.

 

[Mr_B0narpte]

I want to repeat here again that it would be really nice to have the ability to add more than one brigade attachment to a ground division. It gets really expensive, but it would be about the only way to recreate what a relatively small USA army of ~90 divisions could do in the war. The misc. file editing could make this a mod option.

IMO that is just unachievable unless the war pans out perfectly historically, which would be an achievement in itself. What if Spain joins the Axis or is invaded, what if the UK falls, what if all of Africa is in Axis hands... There are too many variables that make it near impossible for the US to successfully conduct a war with just 90 land divisions. The AoD division and production system alone make it highly impracticle for the US to have such a small force.

 

[Pang Bingxun]

Here is a new set of changes. Set 22 is included in the file.

\ai\ita_1936.ai
		higher priority for assembly line
		
\ai\jap_1936.ai
		reinforcement = 0.5000 changed to 0.30
		max_factor = 0.30 changed to 0.50
		infantry = 40 changed to 50
		garrison = 15 changed to 0
		paratrooper = 1 changed to 0
		interceptor	= 4 changed to 6
		cas = 4 changed to 0
		tactical_bomber = 2 changed to 0
		carrier = 5 changed to 10
		escort_carrier = 0 changed to 1
		destroyer = 4 changed to 6
		light_cruiser = 8 changed to 10
		
\ai\switch\JAP_Build_Fort.ai
		max_factor = 0.40 deleted
		
\ai\switch\JAP_Build_Fort_Stop.ai
		max_factor = 0.40 deleted
		
\ai\switch\jap_build_land.ai
		infantry = 30 changed to 50
		light_armor = 1 changed to 0
		paratrooper = 0 changed to 1
		garrison = 20 changed to 0
		multi_role = 5 changed to 0
		cas = 5 changed to 0
		tactical_bomber = 5 changed to 0
		transport_plane = 0 changed to 1
		carrier = 3 changed to 10
		escort_carrier = 0 changed to 1
		destroyer = 0 changed to 8
		light_cruiser = 10 changed to 8
		
\ai\switch\jap_build_standard.ai
		infantry = 20 changed to 13
		garrison = 15 changed to 0
		interceptor = 4 changed to 5
		multi_role = 4 changed to 5
		cas = 4 changed to 5
		tactical_bomber = 4 changed to 5
		carrier = 6 changed to 15
		escort_carrier = 1 changed to 2
		destroyer = 10 changed to 12
		light_cruiser = 6 changed to 12
		
\ai\switch\jap_naval_pacific.ai
		max_factor = 0.40 deleted
		
\ai\switch\JAP_Pacific.ai
		max_factor = 0.40 deleted
		
\ai\switch\JAP_Pacific_War_Phase4.ai
		max_factor = 0.40 deleted
		
\db\misc.txt
		_CV_SCORCH_DAMAGE_= 0.0003 changed to 0.0002
		
\db\events\ai_jap.txt
		22554-22557: changed chain of events
		
\scenarios\1936\chi_36.inc
		1937 Mountaineers are now starting tech

 

[unmerged(86927)]

that would make absolutely no sense what so ever other than ensuring that japan will never be interesting or challenging, so be honest this would be absolute the most stupid approach to the far east theather that could be implemented.

what needs to be done, is to increase the resources in china and in the warlords, ensure that Yunnan and guanxi has at least 15 IC to supply and support their armies so that they can actually use their armies to defend against the japanese, actually use the ai minor exped force to balance out the forces

My suggestion was in reponse on seeing Chinese infrastructure better than in western Europe or in the perspective of having IC in China bigger than many European countries. If that's ok with your view or "realism" then so be it.

BTW, is this forum no longer moderated?

 

[unmerged(86927)]

What are those other tweaks Gunman?

There are some "hidden" mechanics behind which leader is decided to be picked

 

[unmerged(86927)]

New version up.

Changes:

- Liberating nations no longer damages their provinces infra / economy like when conquering them.
- AI bombers may perform night missions against human player. The night missions are determined by mission type, leader (nigh flyer trait), if the divisions are escorted and their current model. Now most of the early strategic bombing will be done by night.

 

[Pioniere]

Ill_prov_401.rar possible capital picture for for Greece.
http://www.sendspace.com/file/alyje8

 

[Pioniere]

@Pioniere

U73-England

We already have J.F.C. Fuller a CoS and CoA but it would be nice to have him as a Minister of Armament (tank proponent), too. I've seen that the U73 leader file (v1.08A) is quite empty: only 6 entries. Some additions would be useful because after a successful Sealion many players are tempted to release U73 to ease their garrison duties.

Hi I think the U73 leader file has been fixed.

http://www.sendspace.com/file/lk32in
ministers_u73.rar
and here is Fuller new post.
700382;Minister of Armament;J.F.C. Fuller;39;NS;Tank Proponent;Medium;M1017;x

 

[PB-DK]

My suggestion was in reponse on seeing Chinese infrastructure better than in western Europe or in the perspective of having IC in China bigger than many European countries. If that's ok with your view or "realism" then so be it.

BTW, is this forum no longer moderated?

im sorry, did you study the chinese civil war or the sino japanese conflict at any point? do any research on the economic balances of china? no?

 

[Hister]

Hey there PB-DK, can you chill out a bit please?

We all get cranky sometimes and you did come out a bit assaulty. Guys improving aod are great and very dedicated so there is no need to attack them like that but I do agree pang sometimes employes rather drastic measures that not all approve so your remark is spot on but it could be delivered in a more nice manner you know.

 

[unmerged(86927)]

im sorry, did you study the chinese civil war or the sino japanese conflict at any point? do any research on the economic balances of china? no?

Well, I have read a little, so I cannot claim I am expert on this. So I am surprised to learn that infrastructure of China was better than in Germany or the IC of China should be comparable with Czechoslovakia.

 

[Mr_B0narpte]

New version up.

Changes:

- Liberating nations no longer damages their provinces infra / economy like when conquering them.
- AI bombers may perform night missions against human player. The night missions are determined by mission type, leader (nigh flyer trait), if the divisions are escorted and their current model. Now most of the early strategic bombing will be done by night.

Awesome! May I point out the UK and US launch hopeless ground attacks with tactical bombers on well supplied German forces in occupied France and elsewhere, if this can be edited that would be even more awesome

 

[kane279]

Chi - jap

well I personally doubt the approach with "give them lots of Infra" or "give them loads of IC".
I even question the idea to fire the warlord events so quickly if human player=JAP
or the rate, CHI accumulates INF '36 faster than JAP! (I ran into a brickwall when trying the usual all out attack at the outbreak of the war)

I would rather appreciate some more subtle helps for china, e.g. better defense in mountains & swamps, a TC modifier to help sustain a bigger army
maybe the production of landfortifications in backward areas to defend even better against JAP assaults.

I would more than look the other way for subrle changes to history but at the moment CHI looks a bit too sandboxish, if you play human JAP

just my 10cent

 

[Pang Bingxun]

Well, I have read a little, so I cannot claim I am expert on this. So I am surprised to learn that infrastructure of China was better than in Germany or the IC of China should be comparable with Czechoslovakia.

The current solution of CHI feeding its warlords with supplies is not very elegant. An alternative to the current system would be to increase resources in the yunnan area a lot so CHI can supply its industry generiosly. The IC of Xibei and Yunnan could be increased by 1, so that they can at least supply their own troops. Taiyuan and Jinan could have 3 IC instead of 1 IC and those IC would be transfered to the interior later. Guangxi could use some more IC as well. That could be achieved by granting Guangxi cores on Guangzhou. Those cores would be removed at the end of Guangxi war.
This solution has quite some advances. There would no longer be the need to make AI CHI buy IC with money. There would no longer be the need to make AI CHI buy infra with money, at least not beyond 50%.

well I personally doubt the approach with "give them lots of Infra" or "give them loads of IC".
I even question the idea to fire the warlord events so quickly if human player=JAP
or the rate, CHI accumulates INF '36 faster than JAP! (I ran into a brickwall when trying the usual all out attack at the outbreak of the war)

The Jap AI easily breaks through this brickwall. I may make CHI start with 1936 blueprint instead of having the tech at the start of 1936. But in general the disadavantages of not uniting CHI are quite severe.

 

[PB-DK]

Well, I have read a little, so I cannot claim I am expert on this. So I am surprised to learn that infrastructure of China was better than in Germany or the IC of China should be comparable with Czechoslovakia.

the total chinese IC should be more than comparable to the czechs, just because the chinese industry was at this point decentralized and devided out between the different warlords, does not mean that china did not have any industry.

these where
Chinese equipment and major arsenals


this book has plenty of data China's Nation-Building Effort, 1927-1937



same book more details China's Nation-Building Effort, 1927-1937



more on chinese economy this time concentrating on agriculture Chinese History in Economic Perspective
this also gives details on the chinese economic stiuation though no online access 1. Economic Growth in Prewar China
need more detail?

 

[Mr_B0narpte]

need more detail?

I would please, what are the main arguments/ trains of thought made in these books? And how should these affect AoD (i.e. does China need lots more IC or infra or....?)

 

[Pang Bingxun]

And especially: Which resource values should those provinces in the Yunnan area have?

 

[Blecky]

BTW right now CHI is building MNT divs brigaded with ART. If they survive until 1940 chances are that they drive the JAP forces from the mainland - they had 70 INF and 38 MNT in mid 1941 and have regained the area around Nanjing.

It´s a little tough to keep pace with the latest version of the beta (they´re coming up in such a rapid succession ), so I usually have to restart in mid 1941.