1.07

[daboese]

It seems to me that the balance of the last (1.07) patch is a little bit buggered. Although the AI should be more wary to powermongers, that should mean if those are trying to expand into the European States and NOT the other civilisations. After annexing Scotland (as England), I cannot even declare war on the Aztecs or Irocese anymore without EVERYONE trying to fight me. It seems that the criteria are a little bit too harsh, and if one is playing quite successful, ALL computer players gang up on someone (realistic would be that the surrounding ones are allying and then attacking, and not 6 war declarations all from different alliances)- like they would never do with themselves anyway. Furthermore, some of them accept peace immediately before anything happened- so why do they declare war if they do not want to fight it?

 

[unmerged(490)]

I find the same thing. Take a look at my post on this a little bit down the page.

 

[daboese]

Yes, just realised it. The AI is definitely hopeless. Which patch did you use, 1.06 or 1.07?
P.S. It happened to me also playing Hannover.

 

[unmerged(548)]

Mayby you should pay some more attention to you missions. It is not necesary to do a world conquest to be able to win the game and in fact the patch remedys the easy 'kill 'em all' & totally unhistorical way (or loophole) to victory that people have been using.

------------------
/ Stefan Huszics

 

[unmerged(490)]

As I pointed out in the other post i wasn't conquering the world. I actually hadn't declared war on anyone but the aztecs by this point.

BTW this was with 1.07

 

[unmerged(703)]

I guess the important part is to have a European power base with royal weddings, allies and good relationships, before you attack anyone.

I find that most countries hesitate to declare war if they will get more than one country to their border.

Useful here would be added information on the warning screen when declaring war. Who are the allies ? And your relationship to them.....

------------------
bmolsson
*Just passing by*

 

[unmerged(628)]

This sounds like it will make a much more interesting game, especially multiplayer! If one player starts to get out in front not only with the player nations start to give him trouble but also the computer nations! Excellent!

I still don't have EU but what I've been looking forward to is having to balance giving black eyes with giving tribute, wiping out one neighbor while placating the next. It is the player that can selectively expand and at the same time keep hatred against him low that should be rewarded with victory. It shouldn't be just buying guns and blowing away everyone!

 

[unmerged(258)]

I haven't tested enough to see the AI behave strangely yet. But then again I don't play a Total Blitz style either. It seems possible that there could be less penalty to relations/powermongering consideration from other European powers if you are conquering people from other parts of the world. Although it would be realistic as well for other European nations to cast a wary eye toward you as you begin to flow in all the gold from the Americas ...

 

[unmerged(575)]

Playing Livonia under 1.05b, then 1.07 for several decades, AI alliances came down on me like a ton of bricks while I was at peace although I am a second rate power. I think it was because I was building more outposts and colonies outside Europe. I had no prior interactions with England, but England declared war and brought in France, Netherlands, Prussia, Venice, all vigorously assailing me on all sides and romping through my territory. 3 of these powers were stronger than I. I had acquired several European provinces earlier in the game under 1.05b, and am convinced I probably could not do this if the AI responds to actions rather than threats.

It felt more like the 'kick 'em while he's down' situation in Imperialism 2 than containment as against Charles V or Louis XIV.

 

[unmerged(436)]

I find the new AI very much improved! It is far more realistic now that before. If I attack ANY nation I can expect a much higher chance of being counter-attacked by the computer. This IS how it should be! The new nationalism risk seems to be working very well. It now pays to play like you should (for a European power of this era) as opposed to trying to conquer the world. There is now far more emphasis on maintaining good relations and a strong alliance with other countries. Any time I failed to form alliances I was attacked! I now have to spend effort maintaining strong alliances to counter computer alliances.
I would suggest that anyone who now harbours global domination ambitions needs to change the difficulty settings down a bit. Now ALL the difficulty settings are useful and you don't just set everything to aggressive.

 

[daboese]

No, this is not how it should be working. I looked a little bit into the save files. There is a value badboy, which appears now in there. This value increases even when I attack Indians or anything (this should happen only if I attack European countries). And although the AI has a lot higher value than me, it doesn't happen to them (France had a value of 30, I had 20, but all attacked me when France declared war on me out of no reason). I am not playing ANY Blitz style, in fact, I am quite peaceful (except to Non- European Civilisation). The countries, BTW do not care about royal weddings or their stability- they just attack, even if their stability goes ballistic.

 

[unmerged(490)]

Well in my case I had very good relations with everyone in Europe, since I hadn't attacked anyone. I had annexed Granada (playing Spain) but they hardly count.

Helvetia was even my ally but broke the alliance to attack me, and had something like +150 relations! I think somehow it is triggering on the size of your nation, not relations, and my colonies tipped the scales.

I have no objection to the AI attacking me. I thought the idea of this patchwas to make it harder to conquor Europe? It actually makes it easier because your opponents launch suicide attacks.

Here is what I think is happening:

Firstly I don't think relations have changed. I still get the same good relations from marriages, gifts etc and bad from annexation.

Secondly, I think these attacks are triggered by size and war. I don't know how the AI judges size (territories, wealth, tech, armies?) but it seems that if you are over a certain size and get in a war then the AI wants to fight too. I think mine was triggered by declaring war on the Aztecs - then every man and his dog declared war on me.

I don't think this works, because the attacking nations are not allied to each other and do not cooperate. It was fairly easy for me to deal with the French and then the English, then the Russians etc.

What would be better?

The problem is that one country shouldn't be allowed to dominate the world. All that is needed is a counterbalancing power, but this needn't be another nation - it can be an alliance. So, if one country grows to large (perhaps measured just like in the above), the AI should try and build an alliance to match it.

This should be algorithmically fairly simple. Just try and invite countries with good relations into the alliance and try to improve relations with those who don't like you. If there are no more viable partners and all alliances are too small (this sometimes happens i notice) then the smallest alliance should disband and apply to the largest for admission.

That way, no matter how big your county gets there will allways be a counterbalancing alliance of equal strength. Then, if you have bad relations you are in for a proper fight!

Please take these comments constructively. EU is a great game - I just want to make it even better.

 

[daboese]

Rogan- just look at your savegame with a normal editor, search for badboy, and look for Spain (I think SPA). Then you will see how much you have been rated a 'powermonger' in your game. I guess it should ba a LOT higher than the values of the other nations...

 

[aelbric]

I LOVE this new patch. I admit that I am one of the 'warmonger players' with my favorite being Russia. My usual targets include Pskov, Kurland, TO, Kazan, Astrakhan, Golden Horde, Sibir, Crimea, and a few provinces of Persia in the South. Before I could easily complete the conquest of this group without effort and start colonizing central Asia with virtually no resistance.

Not anymore.

After Annexing my first country (Kazan) I was trying to consolidate the gain and found that Poland was attacking me in strength whenever it could. It had Allied with at lest 4 other nations in doing so and gave me a very hard time. I ended that war and began moving against Golden Horde only to find that Sweden, TO, and Astrakhan would attack me while still in combat with GH. After I absorbed them and attacked Astrkhan, I was assaulted by no less than 14 powers!!! They included Poland, Spain, Sweden, Turkey, Crimea, TO, Pskov, Moldavia, England, Portugal, Hansa, Venice and a couple others!!!

Now this has slowed me down considerably. In many cases I get attacked from the opposite direction by a country while trying to execute a war with someone else. Even Russia with her cheap infantry and huge manpower pool can't keep this up for long and with limited diplomacy once she starts down that path there is no going back. I find that EVERY YEAR I buy my entire manpower pool just to hold territory and fend off the other nations.

Much improved. Before, the other powers let me expand into an unstoppable powerhouse. Now, every DoW takes careful preparation and forethought. Points to the new patch!

 

[daboese]

I don't know if that is that good... It just keeps being tedious, fighting all those Nations, and being even able to pick WHOM to fight out of them. Russia should be able to conquer a large part of the Khanates, but after a while all of them should hate Russia that much that they declare war to it whenever it is at war with someone else. Poland never did worry too much about a Russia expanding, but when Russia attacked a Christian country, it definitely would have declared war on it.

 

[Johan]

Have faith, we are listening to you guys.

/Johan

 

[unmerged(490)]

Thanks for listening Johan!

I will check that badboy thing. I don't understand how it could be big though since I was being peaceful!

I agree that it is not much fun - it just gets tedious fighting all those wars non-stop when they stand no chance anyway.

another problem I think is the AI when making peace deals. It seems that the leader of the alliance just considers its own performanc in the wars, and ignores its allies. So if I am at war with France and they are allied with Navarra, I can just ignore Navarra and even let them capture territories. If I win against France I know that Navarra will have to give me my territories back and go home.
Somehow the AI should take its entire allied war effort into account, or perhaps Navarra should have the option of continuing to fight if France makes peace.

 

[unmerged(703)]

Maybe there is a connection to the Santa database on internet.
If you have been a bad boy, then everyone declares war AND you won't get EU2 in Christmas present ;-)


(*Sorry, could not resist*)

------------------
bmolsson
*Just passing by*

 

[daboese]

Hey- I didn't name the value 'badboy'.
And generally it is good to have another scale outside the normal 'relations' in between countries, which goes a little bit deeper to tweak the game balance. It just needs some adjustments, and together with the relations it should determine whether another country declares war on you or not; I think this value needs to be more precise, perhaps being different for the different religions, and European/Non- European. That would make the game a lot more fun. And thanks for looking at our suggestions- A big cheer for the programmers!

 

[unmerged(158)]

If there is a badboy value and if this value is essential for the game, then the badboy values of at least the major powers should be visible in the game. In reality the reputation of each country would be known.