1.07 Loan Bugs NA, France

[unmerged(17688)]

In my latest france game I have been running into a bug where the game will force loans on me if I have no money when the month changes.

At first I thought it was just a load game problem, but it seems to happen without this prompt. It always ends up leaving me with 199 or 198 gold (even though my monthly losses are more then that). In a three year period I ended up with 4 loans outstanding.

Seems to be some kind of math problem where the game is not adding the values correctly and will cause a shortfall of gold even if your income is more then your outlays.

 

[Owen]

This is autoloaning, which happens when the you have no money and your outgoings exceed your income. Just like in real life, you must take loans or go bankrupt. It is not a bug.

Being left with 198 or 199d (after taking a 200d loan) is what usually happens after this autoloaning. If there is any bug at all here, it is possible your income or outgoings are not being reported correctly.

 

[unmerged(17688)]

Yes, that is what the problem is, I'm playing France with a 50k'ish army which is the only outlay (other then stablity or tech), the cost for that is about 8 ducats a month out of 30 or so ducats a month.

This is the first time I've seen it do this, I'm fairly used to running without gold at the end of year (inflation is bad mmkay). This is doubly strange as I've been running 1.07 since it's release and never seen the problem until yesterday and had never seen it in the previous releases. Maybe my math co-processor was having a bad day....

 

[unmerged(17688)]

Bah, I figured it out

Tax income: 10.8 (it seems to bounce from 11.3 to 10.8)
Goods: 0.8
Trading: 0.2
Gold mines: 0.0
-----------------------

Total: 11.8 or (12.3)

military main: 12.2.

So I guess the lesson is don't recruit 10k calvary as france right off the bat in 1419.

w/o add calv: 5.3

What caused me to look at this was I replicated it on the laptop doing the same exact thing, and as france I reallized it would be easier to beat up on the pesky english with more calvery. I guess that isn't going to work quite well.

*edit*

The half gold differance would apparently be a loss of 2 merchants in Il de France, and the loss of taxation on them.

 

[AndrewT]

>it would be easier to beat up on the pesky english with more calvery. I guess that isn't going to work quite well.

No, those calves are not much chop on the field of battle.

 

[Nikolai II]

Cavalry might be a good idead though

But I just wanted to point out:

a) As you noticed, going above 'Max supportable limit' will get _really_ expensive.

b) The incomes/expenses summary screen shows too high incomes in february, maybe due to januarys incomes including some census taxes(not in 1419 though?), or for some other reason. The rest of the year is somewhat more truthful, but you can never trust it completely, if someone starts covering or looting your lands you won't get income from that province until the covering/looting has stopped. (Probably this that happened to you, the English and or Burgundians entered one of your provinces, preventing taxes from being gathered)

 

[unmerged(17688)]

I'll have to check and see what France's max support level is, I had a later game when I tried to conquer the world on VH, after seeing how bad that went I decided to restart.

Lets just put it this way I had a 500 ducat a month military maintenance, and only had half the army I wanted.

*edit

On the issue of troop type, I pretty much don't use artillery or cavalry. Mainly due to support costs and lack of utility.

To further illistrate, three reasons why I don't use cavalry...

Increased maintenance

decreased effectiveness as technology advances

Unable to assult


I've seen some people recomend using cavalry to deal with revolts but I recomend against for the first and third reasons. Even with the sliders all the way to decentralized I still occassionally have a provence launch a freedom movement (rebels take the provence at the start of the revolt)

The only reason I'm using cavalry currently is due to the fact Egland uses them pretty exculsively at the start *and* if I don't have them they chew through my armies. At land level 9 this advantage is greatly reduced with the first crit gain.

 

[Owen]

The increased shock value of cavalry means they are by far the best value for money troop type until late in the game. Given that your troop support level is independent of troop type (save for the 10 artillery=1000 other troops thing) then I would not recruit any infantry as France in 1419, since they have so many plains provinces.

 

[Zander]

There IS, however, a problem in MP where you can be forced to take loans even though your money is apparently positive. I believe that this is a lack of proper synchronization between your computer and the host's computer (i.e. you have less money than your computer "thinks" you do).
But I sure do wish the computer would prevent you from spending the money unless you explicitly take a loan, as it's a big pain to be forced to take a loan because you spent yourself down to (what looks like) 20 gold.

 

[AndrewT]

That MP loan problem is suposed to be fixed in the current 1.07 beta.

 

[unmerged(17734)]

Loan bug exists!

He's right. Try to play with a small country and you will understand what's a loan bug (I hav tried with Serbia). If only once you ask for a loan (or you are forced to do it because treasure is empty), it's impossible to come back. Charge increase and you need to get another loan to survive... charge increase again... the game becomes stupid and you are lost, there is nothing to play, nothing to do. Your stability stay at -3 and there is no way to repay the loan (or the multiple loans!). The same problem exists in the latest update of the beta!

 

[AndrewT]

How is that a bug? That's exactly how it would work in reality. Eventually your government will fall and you can start afresh.