1.07 feature not working? (Holder history copying)

[DLFebin]

From 1.07 changelog:
"- When creating a new higher tier title that has never had a holder before, its holder history will be copied from your current title"

Finally wanted to give it a try, but it's not working, the ruler is first in the new title's history list.

What was I trying:
Tyrone -> Ulster
Ulster -> Ireland
Norway -> Scandinavia

Is it working for anyone? If not, then it is probably a bug, but I like to ask you pals first.

 

[JonStryker]

I'm glad that it doesn't work as you think it should as this would be rather stupid. Why should the kings of Norway be copied over to the Emperors of Scandinavia or the counts of Tyrone to the dukes of Ulster? Wouldn't make any sense.

This feature is used for when you (re-)create the Roman Empire. If you do that the Byzantine Basileis are copied over to the Roman Empire.

 

[Ols]

It's never worked for me either, except of course for the Roman Empire. That's the only logical way in which it should work in my opinion.

 

[Thure]

I'm glad that it doesn't work as you think it should as this would be rather stupid. Why should the kings of Norway be copied over to the Emperors of Scandinavia or the counts of Tyrone to the dukes of Ulster? Wouldn't make any sense.

This feature is used for when you (re-)create the Roman Empire. If you do that the Byzantine Basileis are copied over to the Roman Empire.

Sometimes it makes sense! The Princes of Moscow. Ivan IV the Terrible was the first Csar of Russia. But he still use the title of the Principality of Moscow.

 

[JonStryker]

Sometimes it makes sense! The Princes of Moscow. Ivan IV the Terrible was the first Csar of Russia. But he still use the title of the Principality of Moscow.

Yes but all his predecessors at the principality of Moscow weren't styled Tsar from that point on. He still was the first one

 

[Thure]

Yes but all his predecessors at the principality of Moscow weren't styled Tsar from that point on. He still was the first one

Thats not the point. It's about the counting. If the history wasn't translate to ussia, he would be Ivan I the Terrible

 

[unmerged(75409)]

Did they ever fix the bug / feature which erased a title's history when it was re-created after a period of vacancy? That annoyed the hell out of me in my games pre-1.06.

 

[Thure]

Did they ever fix the bug / feature which erased a title's history when it was re-created after a period of vacancy? That annoyed the hell out of me in my games pre-1.06.

I'm really sure it was fixed.

To the question... Eventually a line in the landed title file? "inherite_history = yes"for example. So you could choose which titlees use the rule. Hm

 

[JonStryker]

Thats not the point. It's about the counting. If the history wasn't translate to ussia, he would be Ivan I the Terrible

You're right. I wasn't aware that Ivan the terrible is properly called Ivan IV

 

[DLFebin]

Ye, I just want the counting (I like naming rulers the same). In Ulster example it will be Domnall IV, cause Tyrone has some history.

And I was thinking about counting, really. You can never know what other think, so I just recommend not to use phrases like "as you think".
Also, just saying, it surely wasn't implemented only for Roman Empire, you can see it in the description. (At least because Roman Empire is not higher tier than Byzantine one.)

And in CK2 history should be copied. Because there is no separate system for the counting, or am I wrong?

Anyway, in Byzantine->Roman event it is: "copy_title_history = e_byzantium".

 

[Sleight of Hand]

It's generally nonsensical as a concept, but I concede that there are probably a handful of people who did it.

For example, if Ioannes IX of Naples forms the despotate of Sicily then he should be Ioannes I, for he is the first of that title. Likewise, if Edward III of England manages to form Britannia, then he should logically be Edward I, Emperor of Britannia -- he'd still remain Edward III, King of England as well, which is fine. You can check a ruler's individual titles/regnal numbers for their respective realms by viewing that realm's list of historical rulers.

Forming a new title should certainly start a clean slate for that title, though. I read the change log and thought that part an odd and disappointing decision, but if it doesn't work then perhaps it was scrapped at the last minute. I don't know.

Either way, if it doesn't work, be thankful.

 

[DLFebin]

Eh, it depends on situation and preference. Some countries love big numbers, Sweden, for example goes as far as forging some. Or in Russia regnal numbers are treated not like in Europe.
(But, just saying, Naples and Sicily are the same tier, the numbers will be the same if that feature worked.)

Is there any way to do it aside from modding in events for every country, though?

 

[Sleight of Hand]

Sorry, I meant duke of Napoli > king of Sicily.

 

[Lorehead]

So, then, there should be a Queen Elisabeth of England and a Queen Elisabeth of Great Britain, but no Elisabeth II? France/Francia is another case that roughly parallels the change from King of the Franks to King of France. And, as mentioned, the Byzantine emperors would not commemorate their great triumph by declaring that, um, they weren’t real Roman Emperors up to now?

Maybe, rule of thumb: if a king replaces his previous title with an empire title that didn’t previously exist, it’s probably just a grander version of the same title, and uses the same numbering.

 

[JonStryker]

Ye, I just want the counting (I like naming rulers the same). In Ulster example it will be Domnall IV, cause Tyrone has some history.

And I was thinking about counting, really. You can never know what other think, so I just recommend not to use phrases like "as you think".
Also, just saying, it surely wasn't implemented only for Roman Empire, you can see it in the description. (At least because Roman Empire is not higher tier than Byzantine one.)

And in CK2 history should be copied. Because there is no separate system for the counting, or am I wrong?

Ivan the terrible basically changed the way the Russian monarch is addressed. Before he was the Grand Prince. That's why it makes sense that the numbers are continued. In game terms this would mean, that he created a new title for himself and destroyed his old one.

This isn't, however, always applying. When Napoleon dissolved the HRE, Emperor Franz II founded the Austrian Empire and was then called Franz I.

In my opinion it just doesn't make sense to copy history when you create a new higher title. Especially if you go from count to duke. Not historical and very problematic in game terms.

@Lorehead
+1

 

[DLFebin]

Ivan the terrible basically changed the way the Russian monarch is addressed. Before he was the Grand Prince. That's why it makes sense that the numbers are continued. In game terms this would mean, that he created a new title for himself and destroyed his old one.

This isn't, however, always applying. When Napoleon dissolved the HRE, Emperor Franz II founded the Austrian Empire and was then called Franz I.

In my opinion it just doesn't make sense to copy history when you create a new higher title. Especially if you go from count to duke. Not historical and very problematic in game terms.

@Lorehead
+1

Well, that's actually what I want too. I just think there is no other way to do it for now, as there is no separate system for regnal number counting, it seems. If there was, would be nice.

 

[DLFebin]

Ha, there is separate system, actually. "previous={}" in title's data in the save. Putting IDs here is the thing affecting regnal numbers, without actually making everyone in the past Emperor/King/Duke of new title.

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