1.07 beta Rebellions gone awry

[creilly66]

Hello,

I thought Id just ask about this, because I havent seen anybody else post about this. In the latest beta, rebellions seem to go out of control.

Its not that the rebels are stronger, I love the new RR and rebellion setup. The problem is that the AI seems to never go after them. I watched as Austria became dismembered. A single rebel army of 15,000 walked from province to province, sieging and sucessfully capturing each. In turn, each of these defected or had a revolution. Meanwhile, the 24,000 man Austria army in Mantua did nothing, not even after reloading to awaken the AI.

I also noticed Castile suffered the same implosion. After thinking about it and watching another episode, Im convinced it has to do with whether or not the AI is at war. Both Castile and Austria were at war, but were in phoney wars with distant countries. Therefore they had troops sitting there, but sort of in like a guard mode. Did the AI allocate these to guard provinces? In any event the rebel army continued to dominate.

 

[unmerged(15881)]

repeat

I just posted this in another thread, but here it goes again. I'm finding the same thing. The AI doesn't handle it's rebellions very well. I'm watching France, Austria, Castille and Aragorn all level off at about 4-6 provinces. Larger than that and they will lose them as provinces rebel and declare their independence. England has gained and lost Meckelburg probably a dozen times in the last 100 years. Oddly, I've watched armies sit in provinces next to the rebels and do nothing until they declare independence. Only then will they declare independence and march over.

 

[Derek Pullem]

The trouble is that rebels are just too strong. We're all used to blowing them away with equal numbers of troops. Now you need 2x to have a chance if they are in a defensive position. I'm just getting used to it but the AI has trouble.

BTW - I've seen an Austria stretching from Flanders to Danzig to Smyrna to Milan so it doesn't always work that way. But the AI does need training. And i think the rebels are too strong. Maybe give them default 1-1-1 leaders?

 

[Foratul]

I'm having problems with tough rebels "entrenched" in defensive terrain ; I'm losing many battles against rebels even when my odds are 2:1 full morale/mantineance with a good leadership...

IMHO , rebels with similar tech lvl is ok , but morale should be lower than your "proffesional" army morale ... after all , they often are "scum" routing and fleeing when the odds are against them and shouldn't have a real chance against an enemy 1:1 in number ... as it's now they still win 2:1 or 3:1 battles sometimes ... in my experience at least...

 

[unmerged(12760)]

WHY have the rebels the same tech / equipment as your regular army ?? that seems not locical to me....

i would say leaders should be somewhat weaker ( because they are civilians, or ?? ) but morale can be on quite good levels, why would they uprise if they had very low morale ? but equipment should be lower than the regular army IMHO.

 

[creilly66]

I think your missing the point of the post a little. I am not talking about the actual strength of the rebels. Yes, they are much stronger. I was playing England 1419, and took most of northern France. After settling for peace, I had a rebellion in Picardie...

So I sent my 20,000 man garrison in Caux after them, commanded by a good leader (I believe it was still Henry V). Well, something else happened and I looked away from the battle, big mistake. I think Henry made it back with 250 men. I think it just takes more planning now. Dont cross rivers to attack, use cav in fields and more infantry in hills...but other than that disaster, I like the new strength of rebels. (Though rebels should have 1 less land tech. I mean the peasants in the Jacquerie were not using plate armor and swords, but pitchforks)

I am talking about the AI's chasing them, or lack of chasing them,. I know this used to be a problem in the past, and it looks like it again, which is a shame because I like the beta otherwise.

 

[Foratul]

Originally posted by Frank W.
WHY have the rebels the same tech / equipment as your regular army ?? that seems not locical to me....

i would say leaders should be somewhat weaker ( because they are civilians, or ?? ) but morale can be on quite good levels, why would they uprise if they had very low morale ? but equipment should be lower than the regular army IMHO.

I presume they got the weapons / shields from the local armoury , hence the similar tech lvl ... about morale ... they should be brave enough to uprise against law/power but they really should not have the bonusses attached to your current tech level (and maybe monarch bonusses??) . but seriously a party of local villagers can't have the same morale of your national army when the shock phase is rolling over there ... they aren't trained / professional forces ... they are supposed to flee or retreat if the heat of the battle is too long or too hot

 

[unmerged(6816)]

I am playing Naples now on tech level 26+ and well the rebels are tough my armies keep getting slaughtered by the rebels I seem to need lots more troops to drive out the rebels. Now you need at least 2:1 troops. And with the higher costs of everything and my severe troubles to get even more then 1 trader into a CoT that is not my own things get hard.
So I if it is hard for me I wonder how the AI deals with it.

 

[unmerged(11486)]

As England in 1419 (It was around 1480 or so), I has simeultaneous revolts in Bristol and Kent. Simueltaneous, meaning the exact same day. Both provinces had a RR of 1.

Anyway, I raised an army to fight them in Wessex (my main army was up north, fighing the evil scots) of 20,000 troops, 12 infantry, 8 cavalry. By the time this was done, and the army had full morale, the rebels had captured their provinces. Then, both rebel armies marched on Anglia. Both. At the same time. I sent in my troops, but they were outnumbered 3 to 1. Needless to say, I lost most of my force, and had to recall some troops from Scotland, along with a leader (I forget who). It took another year almost before I could finally crush them.

This is what a rebellion should be more like (except it shouldn't happen to me), but they shouldn't happen nearly as often.

Steele

 

[Rio]

The point is that the ai doesn't DO anything, not that it can't. Yes, playing current beta in hands off.

 

[KungMarkatta]

Originally posted by Derek Pullem
The trouble is that rebels are just too strong. We're all used to blowing them away with equal numbers of troops. Now you need 2x to have a chance if they are in a defensive position. I'm just getting used to it but the AI has trouble.

Well give the AI some more time and it will also get use to it, youre a fast learner so the first couple of games after a new beta you have an advantage.

 

[Derek Pullem]

Sorry - AI doesn't learn. It has to be programmed

 

[Johan]

Originally posted by Derek Pullem
Sorry - AI doesn't learn. It has to be programmed

Aye

And what is a better way to spend an early sunday morning than doing that?

 

[kurtbrian]

Originally posted by Johan
Aye

And what is a better way to spend an early sunday morning than doing that?

beats me...

Johan, do you ever do anything besides making pacthes....?

 

[unmerged(12760)]

Originally posted by Foratul
I presume they got the weapons / shields from the local armoury , hence the similar tech lvl ... about morale ... they should be brave enough to uprise against law/power but they really should not have the bonusses attached to your current tech level (and maybe monarch bonusses??) . but seriously a party of local villagers can't have the same morale of your national army when the shock phase is rolling over there ... they aren't trained / professional forces ... they are supposed to flee or retreat if the heat of the battle is too long or too hot

agreed. okay, let´s say:

equipment:
equal or slightly lower, i would say still lower, because i don´t think that huge numbers of rebels will find so much modern weapons in armories e.t.c.
perhaps the bigger the number of the rebel army and the lower the size of the city where they start the uprising the lower the values of their weapons.

morale:
perhaps a build in random factor ? but generally lower

leaders:
not so good like your trained generals of course

 

[Derek Pullem]

The real issue with rebels is that they have good morale (often HIGHER than you as they are quality 5), same tech and due to the changes with cavalry you can't shock them away. You will take substantial casualties when putting down revolts and rebels will be your biggest threat in a large empire.

Also in a long war you will find that you cannot support troops (income is reduced due to war WE and hence economic base is nerfed) and you cannot raise troops due to WE reducing province tax value. Even though you have huge manpower reserves.

End result is really you MUST end a war (as a player) within 10 years or odds on you will go bankrupt. I know I have.

 

[Mike the Red]

Aw Johan, don't spend your Sunday morning working. Go to a football game or something. BTW are there any good Swedish quarterbacks for the NFL.?

 

[unmerged(6816)]

Rebels are a real pain in the ass now there were 3 12k rebels in my provinces in mountain terrain, I sent in 2 30k armies and was happy that I defeated them with 20 k troops left.

 

[Ayeshteni]

Originally posted by Derek Pullem
The real issue with rebels is that they have good morale (often HIGHER than you as they are quality 5), same tech and due to the changes with cavalry you can't shock them away. You will take substantial casualties when putting down revolts and rebels will be your biggest threat in a large empire.

So, me thinks that going into the country.csv and reducing quality 5 to quality 1-3 is in order? That sounds more realistic as they are peasents not troops and should slightly reduce their morale. They should still be a bugger to beat tho.

Yours, spreading sedition
GO THE REVOLUTION, BABY
A.

 

[Nikolai II]

Originally posted by Ayeshteni
So, me thinks that going into the country.csv and reducing quality 5 to quality 1-3 is in order?

I'd agree