1.03c and tariffs...?

[Paul Roberts]

The 1.03c readme says:

- Fixed quite a few bugs with tariff and subsidies calculation.

Can someone who knows the ins-and-outs confirm that tariffs and subsidies now actually change the cost of goods for Pops? If so, this is a great day!

 

[Lotus Lo]

seems like it... not 100% up on it all, but 100% subsidized clerk sure puts alot more money under the matress that at 0%, and even more so than 20% tariffs ( my save game govt is liberal)

only thing i saw was that on subsidies, they bought the same, but wouldn't 'splurge' and blow the savings on the good every 6-9 days or so.

this is just a quick look...

 

[Lamprey]

I hope the don't-sell-liquor-and-clothing tariff exploit has been fixed.

 

[King of Men]

Ack! The tariff exploit nerfed? How am I supposed to balance my economy now?

 

[unmerged(1104)]

Ack! The tariff exploit nerfed? How am I supposed to balance my economy now?

Same as the rest of us, with very good luck.

 

[Golden_Deliciou]

The effect of protectionism on an economy is something which could stand to be modelled in greater depth. It causes businesses to stagnate as they can guarantee a market for their produce even if its more expensive and of poorer quality than produce from abroad.

As such, I think tariffs should reduce production effeciency across the board.

 

[maartos]

I hope the don't-sell-liquor-and-clothing tariff exploit has been fixed.

I think this requires more radical changes to the economical system.
Maybe capping stockpiles at a maximum would be some kind of workaround (or making big stockpiles a disadvantage in another way), but not a real solution.

 

[Golden_Deliciou]

(or making big stockpiles a disadvantage in another way),

Well, the accidental loss events (major robbery, new fashion, fruit stock spoils...) are scaled to the size of your stockpile.

As such, if you wait until you have 1,000 stockpiled, you may find 300 are lost through event. I doubt the price will have risen by 50% in the meantime.

 

[G-Klav]

I hope the don't-sell-liquor-and-clothing tariff exploit has been fixed.

I think this requires more radical changes to the economical system.
Maybe capping stockpiles at a maximum would be some kind of workaround (or making big stockpiles a disadvantage in another way), but not a real solution.

Actually, the bug seems fixed, I just tried it out as the Netherlands.
When I stopped selling liquor, my tarriffs decreased from £76.2 to £68.6 per day.
Obviously, they rised again to £76.2 per day, when I started up the factory again.

 

[maartos]

Actually, the bug seems fixed, I just tried it out as the Netherlands.
When I stopped selling liquor, my tarriffs decreased from £76.2 to £68.6 per day.
Obviously, they rised again to £76.2 per day, when I started up the factory again.

why is this? isn't it logical in vic's economical model that when you stop selling a good your pops need, you get more tarrifs? what sense does it make to receive less, except when your pops money is very low so they stop buying other stuff?

we are talking about the stockpiling tactic/exploit in general here, right?

 

[Moquel]

Soooo now there's no way to make money any more?
Since crime spending is checked daily now too, you can't really keep it off for very long either. I seem to be running into a wall very very fast now.
I tried releasing my stockpiles and just sell all every day goods like a good boy, but that meant no where enough income to sustain my population, especially with this kind of crime spending (-750)..

A game in which I was doing pretty good with 1.03b suddenly turned into me losing ~£1000 a day with full crime spending, and still losing at least £200 with crime on 0.

How am I supposed to turn a profit? :/
Slaughter all maintinence and stuff doesn't seem very realistic to me and it would mean I'd get run over by the AI pretty easily too with their production cheats as it is.
Bah.
Any helpfull advice would be nice about now

 

[Yakman]

Maybe you should build profitable factories and infrastructure? you know, like you are supposed to?

 

[Raph]

The effect of protectionism on an economy is something which could stand to be modelled in greater depth. It causes businesses to stagnate as they can guarantee a market for their produce even if its more expensive and of poorer quality than produce from abroad.

As such, I think tariffs should reduce production effeciency across the board.

Really, that's highly debated and far from a fact. Most of the world's strongest economies have been built through protectionism.

 

[Golden_Deliciou]

Really, that's highly debated and far from a fact. Most of the world's strongest economies have been built through protectionism.

When an economy is starting out, protectionism is a good way of protecting the fledgling industry from foriegn competition. Hence the word protectionism.

However, once the industry is established, it's best to lift tarriff barriers to spur them to innovate. Also lifting tarriff barriers encourages other states to do the same.

Really, tarriffs and trade in general are modelled incredibly simplistically in this game. I would want to be allowed to do a wide range of things which aren't currently possible- place tarriffs on the import of specific products, negotiate mutual tarriff reductions (which could be imposed in a peace treaty), refuse to trade certain goods to a certain country, or to ask for or offer wanted goods in a diplomatic negotiation (especially useful for Multiplayer), which could be either a one-time exchange or one to be repeated every day automatically.

 

[Moquel]

Maybe you should build profitable factories and infrastructure? you know, like you are supposed to?

I am, that's what ticks me off.
I'm playing a Germany created by Popular Unification, with Austria brought into the fold. I average around 30 or so worker slots per state (I'm estimating here), most filled, and at least level 3 railroad all over the place, the more highly industrialized areas all the way up to level 5, and only one of my factories is failing to bring in a profit - that's my level 4 artillery factory (-£30 or so a day), and I'm keeping it going cause I don't want to depend on others for my war supplies.
The situation seems to have stabilized after 3 years of frantically trying to tweak everthing to a good level, but I now end up having to heavily tax and tarriff my pops (all on 49.29% and tariffs on max), keep crime spending around middle (about £400) and mostly just praying it'll last.
I'm exporting around £2500 and importing £90 or something like that, so I'm really kinda clueless as to why keeping a profit is so hard right now. Ah well. I guess I'll keep tweaking away untill I figure out what the black hole of my economy is.

 

[Golden_Deliciou]

I now end up having to heavily tax and tarriff my pops (all on 49.29% and tariffs on max), keep crime spending around middle (about £400) and mostly just praying it'll last.

Sounds about normal to me. Full education spending? How much are you spending on defence, etc?

 

[Darkrenown]

Less imports you have £2410 going to your pops. At 50% tax that's £1205 base income, although you should be making more than that with tax efficienty raises. take away crime spending and that's only £805 base, which is probably about what you education adn military budgets cost, so you're living on those tax efficienty techs.

 

[Lamprey]

keep crime spending around middle (about £400)(

800/day for crime sounds excessive, it means you didn't plan your industry right. You shouldn't have trouble keeping it from rising above 400 when funded at maximum, just expand existing factories instead of building a bunch of lvl 1 ones.

 

[Varyar]

How much money are you spending on defence and army upkeep?

 

[Moquel]

Defence and army upkeep? why, that's pretty damn much init
Just now noticed I had defense spending around £400 and army upkeep at around £900 :rofl:
Oh well, I need it to be anywhere close to beating the frenchies or russians
Meh, I guess it'll just take a while getting used to