1.02 Teaser

[unmerged(22703)]

You know currently there are something 25 million Americans who claim ireland as the place of primary ancestral origin, yet as america i have no irish imigrants. If this isn't fixed i am going to continue to be disapointed. Even in 1900 there were millions of american irish. Hundreds of thousands of irish immigrants fought in the american Civil War on both sides.

Also currently there are 45 million americans who claim German Ancestry, thats a huge number. So the idea of german immigrants not going to the states is historicaly incorrect so in respect to most german immigrants going to the states i think that is correct.

 

[unmerged(10370)]

Thank you Colonel Mordoch

 

[unmerged(22703)]

Check this out, http://www.census.gov/apsd/cqc/cqc14.pdf

It's the Ethnic breakdown of US Ethnic Ancestry.

 

[unmerged(10370)]

Im surprised to see Arizona has so many Germans. I would say that most of the illegals didnt take part in that survey.

Hey, do all the immigrants to America just stay minorities? Or do they "merge" into Americans or Yankees?

 

[Derek Pullem]

Check this out, http://www.census.gov/apsd/cqc/cqc14.pdf

It's the Ethnic breakdown of US Ethnic Ancestry.

Actually its a list of what people claim to be. In game terms alot of these people will be Yankee or Dixie in 1836 whilst still more will be assimilated into Yankee culture over the game.

So whilst the proportion of immigrants may be correct (although I think there may be a certain amount of celtic romanticism going on with 20% Irish - Scots Irish - Scottish ) You shouldn't expect to see the culture of the USA looking like this at the end of the game. Many of those Germans will be good WASP Yankees by 1920

 

[J.J.E.]

Sooner or later they merge...probably later Problem is, a lot of them keeps their original religion. The result: 70 % sunni moslem in Boston 1905, 80 % mahayana in Houston and so on...

 

[Derek Pullem]

Sooner or later they merge...probably later Problem is, a lot of them keeps their original religion. The result: 70 % sunni moslem in Boston 1905, 80 % mahayana in Houston and so on...

Is different in 1.02

 

[Peksi]

We'll have a nice christmas present. You guys rock!

 

[Spruce]

Then, yet again, please explain why the Lasseiz Faire America, with virtually no social reforms, got the lion share of the immigrants, while states with relatively expansive social reforms, like say Imperial Germany, generally suffered from emmigration?

You guys are trying to put modern European notions of good government in the Victorian time frame where they were not widely held. People did not move to find a better welfare state at the time, and it would be a serious game flaw if they did in Victoria.

I get this image of a future patch where Yankees and Dixies are immigrating in mass to Bremen because of Bismarck's social reforms.

in my country one of the setbacks to move to the USA is the bad social institution. If this is valid today, why shouldn't it be valid back then?

The reason people moved to the USA back then was the availability of cheap land and the fact they didn't have to serve in some army for some king...

and the lack of a decent social institute here,

Solving the "Indian question" also contributed to improve the appeal the states had all over the globe. The USA was seen as a land of opportunity for the adventure minded homeless, jobless, etc...

But saying that other nations - overseas or not - receiving no immigrants, is wrong,

If my Belgium (or Prussia ) has a decent social insitution - and jobs available, why shouldn't they receive no immigrants?

We also have immigrants in Europe you know?

 

[Winkelried]

I've been down with a severe cold since this tuesday evening, but I'm feeling better now so I thought I should give you a teaser of 1.02.

* 1.02 is planned to be released next week. All depends on final testing now.
* Naval combat have been overhauled completely, with a new concept added in. I regularly see an ironclad escape unharmed from an encounter with several manowars, and a single battleship sinking a few dozen wooden ships without any injuries.
* Manpower is limited to culture. If you want dutch regulars, you have to convert dutch people to soldiers.
* Partisans are not being reinforcable
* Population growth can no longer become silly.
* Manpower have been tweaked overall, and in general armies have been more than halved.


(and LOTS more.. which will be shown when the patch is released...)

Do changes of navy stuff include being able to cut of a country's access to the world market? I remeber feeling incredibly stupid after setting up the US Navy to blockade CSA ports only to realize that it has absolutely not the desired effect. o

Btw, Switzerland isn't 100% protestant. Sitten, Luzern, Bellinzona and Chur are catholic (conservative) and Geneva, Neuchatel, Bern, Basel and Zürich are protestant (liberal). That way the Sonderbundkrieg actually makes sense.

 

[unmerged(16488)]

Yeah. Migrations internal to Europe should happen - though not of the size of the American one. End 19th/beginning 20th, France had its share of poles & Italians. For example. I'm sure they are others.

 

[unmerged(20317)]

Great!!
Hope you'll get the problems solved to the patch.
:rofl:

 

[Dinsdale]

in my country one of the setbacks to move to the USA is the bad social institution. If this is valid today, why shouldn't it be valid back then?

Probably because it was not a factor in US immigration during the 19th century.

The reason people moved to the USA back then was the availability of cheap land and the fact they didn't have to serve in some army for some king...

Not everyone came and set up a homestead in Nebraska. The availability of jobs and food might have been the #1 factor in immigration. Few were not leaving Europe for anything other than necesity; to survive.

But saying that other nations - overseas or not - receiving no immigrants, is wrong,

I'd like to see it fixed, it's a frustrating experience having colonies at the moment.

 

[Demetrios]

So whilst the proportion of immigrants may be correct (although I think there may be a certain amount of celtic romanticism going on with 20% Irish - Scots Irish - Scottish ) You shouldn't expect to see the culture of the USA looking like this at the end of the game. Many of those Germans will be good WASP Yankees by 1920

No Celtic romanticism at all, in all probability. Just look through the phone book of any major American city and you will see all the "O'"s and "Mc"s. I'm surprised that it's only 20%, after all millions of Irish emigrated to the US after the potato famine, and there has been 150 years for them to multiply...

As for the Germans, the only reason why they were WASP Yankees by 1920 was because of WW1. The city I live in, Cincinnati, was officially English-German bilingual right up until 1917, with German being the official language of instruction in schools as often as English. The same goes, I assume, for many other Midwestern cities. Only a wave of anti-German sentiment upon the US entry into WW1 put an end to this...

 

[Derek Pullem]

I'm not going to argue on the proportion of people with irish sounding names - but equally how many spoke their mother tongue as a first language past the second generation. I guess it depends how you assess cultural assimilation within the game. If the proportion of Irish stabilised and then declined after the famine I would say that that is right (Ps I know it doesn't do this in 1.01 - wait and see link here which seems to indicate a fairly constant percentage of "foreign born" Americans over the Vicky period of 15%. So if culturally assimilated = American born then sum of immigrants should be around 15%.

 

[Dinsdale]

I'm not going to argue on the proportion of people with irish sounding names - but equally how many spoke their mother tongue as a first language past the second generation.

From the late 18th century on the mother tongue was English. Gaelic was declining for several reasons, so identifying Irish culture through language is impossible.

I guess it depends how you assess cultural assimilation within the game.

Not just the game but IRL. The peculiar mix of blending in as Americans, yet retaining cultural heritage is still present in the US.

If the proportion of Irish stabilised and then declined after the famine I would say that that is right

I'm not sure that the post-famine numbers were a dramatic decline. Ireland's population continued to fall for decades after the famine.

Irish emmigration to Canada, Australia, and most importantly; Britain could do with quite a bit of tweaking. The way the game plays now, Irish provinces are usually more industrialized than London or the Midlands.

 

[Derek Pullem]

Not just the game but IRL. The peculiar mix of blending in as Americans, yet retaining cultural heritage is still present in the US.

Yes but in Vicky terms minorities are usually oppressed. A non opressed minority is assimilated by the mother culture. Should Irish, German etc minorities be the majority in USA in 1900's? Or should (in game terms) it be predominately Yankee. Note that foreign born troops are less reliable in Vicky. Were Irish and German born US troops in WW1 (or even in the Civil War!) less reliable? I don't think so.

So saying that you have Irish roots and culture is one thing - the actual impact in game terms is something different.

 

[Dinsdale]

Yes but in Vicky terms minorities are usually
So saying that you have Irish roots and culture is one thing - the actual impact in game terms is something different.

Then they should become Yankee/Dixie almost immediately, same with all the other immigrants.

The game oversimplifies cultural assimilation, perhaps what is truly needed are secondary cultures; allowing Pops to retain their own identity (and growing from continued immigration) but dispensing with any of the culture penalties.

 

[Demetrios]

I'm not going to argue on the proportion of people with irish sounding names - but equally how many spoke their mother tongue as a first language past the second generation.

As has been pointed out, the decendents of Irish immigrants still speak their native language to this day...

And the Irish population was oppressed. Until well into the 20th century, there were signs in business windows advertising jobs which said "Irish need not apply" at the bottom.

And the Germans were even less assimilated. As I said, the immigrants and their decendants still spoke German right up until 1917, when the use of the language was suppressed as a patriotic measure. You can still go down to the Over-the-Rhine neighborhood in this city and see many, many buildings with old German writing over the doors...

 

[Derek Pullem]

So the USA should be seething hotbed of oppressed minorities in Vicky ?????????

Big picture, small picture.