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A) definatly.
The problem is that the pops need from all basic goods to be 100% satisfied.
Now you can slap me if i'm wrong but in the 19th century youre average labourer ,farmer of factory worker didn't have such a wide food consumption.I mean Fruit ,grain ,cattle and fish? Youre average 19th century worker could be happy if he had more than 1 foodstuff to eat ,usually these people ate about everyday the same food ,unless a sunday maybe or a holiday.
And neither were luxury's bought by that quantity by lower class people ,at most youre usual 19th century worker had a lot of luck if he could buy just his own food and pay for his shelter.
And then you have that pop problem that a 100 size pop consumes as much as a 99.000 size pop.
Though i think that ,in the end ,the fact that pop system is so bugged makes the game really unbalanced.If it wasn't for this most other issue's would be easy to solve.
The problem is that the pops need from all basic goods to be 100% satisfied.
Now you can slap me if i'm wrong but in the 19th century youre average labourer ,farmer of factory worker didn't have such a wide food consumption.I mean Fruit ,grain ,cattle and fish? Youre average 19th century worker could be happy if he had more than 1 foodstuff to eat ,usually these people ate about everyday the same food ,unless a sunday maybe or a holiday.
And neither were luxury's bought by that quantity by lower class people ,at most youre usual 19th century worker had a lot of luck if he could buy just his own food and pay for his shelter.
And then you have that pop problem that a 100 size pop consumes as much as a 99.000 size pop.
Though i think that ,in the end ,the fact that pop system is so bugged makes the game really unbalanced.If it wasn't for this most other issue's would be easy to solve.
You're absolutely right, Flemish Duck, that's why I have misgivings about lumping all food in the life need section - I thought that for the poor, meat etc would be something of a luxury, hence its inclusion in the everyday need section.
Newsflash: I've tested the b) setup and it does work well - POPs fulfill life 100% before moving on to everyday needs etc. BUT the need setups look highly artificial: as Flemish Duck anticipated, there is this lineup of all the food stuff available, then you have opium and precious metals in everyday needs, etc. One solution would be to reduce/ increase quantities of selected items, for example raise the price/quantity of an everyday need like coffee, and reduce the price/quantity needed of the expensive life stuff such as liquor and fabric. This however looks very very artificial on the game screen. I'm still split inwardly on how to handle this, and will be eagerlty checking this thread for brilliant input that will erase all the problems
. Please help me with this!
Newsflash: I've tested the b) setup and it does work well - POPs fulfill life 100% before moving on to everyday needs etc. BUT the need setups look highly artificial: as Flemish Duck anticipated, there is this lineup of all the food stuff available, then you have opium and precious metals in everyday needs, etc. One solution would be to reduce/ increase quantities of selected items, for example raise the price/quantity of an everyday need like coffee, and reduce the price/quantity needed of the expensive life stuff such as liquor and fabric. This however looks very very artificial on the game screen. I'm still split inwardly on how to handle this, and will be eagerlty checking this thread for brilliant input that will erase all the problems
. Please help me with this!
Actually ,IMO a lot of stuff should be simply deleted from Life needs and the other files should be severly altered:
Just look for ex. at the life_need config file ,and check what is all needed.
That is all just rediculous for LIFE needs.Why should an aristocrat need furniture for life needs?Like he wouldn't survive withought it.And to think that the aristocrat also needs luxury furniture ,why basic why you buy luxury??
just an ex. instead of this for the Labourers life need
labourers =
{
fish = 1
grain = 1
tea = 0.3
liquor = 0.3
wool = 1
}
IMO it should be this:
labourers =
{
grain = 1
}
Same goes for farmers etc. ,due to the point i put forward earlier of people of that time having very one-sided meals.
and then it should be altered upward ,to go further on the alterations for the labourer ,here is what his everyday need should be like:
instead of:
labourers =
{
coffee = 1
fruit = 1
tobacco = 1
regular_clothes = 1
furniture = 1
glass = 1
}
i would go for:
labourers =
{
liquor = 0.3
wool = 1
}
And again ,that's it.wool for ragged clothes and liquor to wash their problems away.
And then the labourers luxury's:
instead of:
labourers =
{
opium = 1
wine = 1
paper = 1
luxury_clothes = 0.3
luxury_furniture = 0.2
precious_metal = 1
telephones = 0.5
fuel = 1
automobiles = 0.5
}
I would go for:
{
fruit = 1
tobacco = 1
regular_clothes = 1
furniture = 1
wine = 1
fish = 1
tea = 0.3
coffee = 1
}
(don't take into account value's)
The moral behind this is that for whatever pop type their shouldn't be such a high dependancy on so much product's for life need ,food and clothing should suffice for life needs for about every pop group.And even everyday should be limited ,all the everyday needs for labourers you have now was far from everyday for those workers of the 19th century.And labourers buying luxury furniture as Luxury's? They couldn't afford that ,for them fruit should be a luxury ,as even that they only used very rarely.
And afcourse ,if you severely limit the life and everyday needs ,it will be easier to fullfill them.
However ,i should keep every good needed somewhere by some pop ,be it as luxury ,to make sure that it is in some demand so that the price of the good doesn't collapse.
Just look for ex. at the life_need config file ,and check what is all needed.
That is all just rediculous for LIFE needs.Why should an aristocrat need furniture for life needs?Like he wouldn't survive withought it.And to think that the aristocrat also needs luxury furniture ,why basic why you buy luxury??
just an ex. instead of this for the Labourers life need
labourers =
{
fish = 1
grain = 1
tea = 0.3
liquor = 0.3
wool = 1
}
IMO it should be this:
labourers =
{
grain = 1
}
Same goes for farmers etc. ,due to the point i put forward earlier of people of that time having very one-sided meals.
and then it should be altered upward ,to go further on the alterations for the labourer ,here is what his everyday need should be like:
instead of:
labourers =
{
coffee = 1
fruit = 1
tobacco = 1
regular_clothes = 1
furniture = 1
glass = 1
}
i would go for:
labourers =
{
liquor = 0.3
wool = 1
}
And again ,that's it.wool for ragged clothes and liquor to wash their problems away.
And then the labourers luxury's:
instead of:
labourers =
{
opium = 1
wine = 1
paper = 1
luxury_clothes = 0.3
luxury_furniture = 0.2
precious_metal = 1
telephones = 0.5
fuel = 1
automobiles = 0.5
}
I would go for:
{
fruit = 1
tobacco = 1
regular_clothes = 1
furniture = 1
wine = 1
fish = 1
tea = 0.3
coffee = 1
}
(don't take into account value's)
The moral behind this is that for whatever pop type their shouldn't be such a high dependancy on so much product's for life need ,food and clothing should suffice for life needs for about every pop group.And even everyday should be limited ,all the everyday needs for labourers you have now was far from everyday for those workers of the 19th century.And labourers buying luxury furniture as Luxury's? They couldn't afford that ,for them fruit should be a luxury ,as even that they only used very rarely.
And afcourse ,if you severely limit the life and everyday needs ,it will be easier to fullfill them.
However ,i should keep every good needed somewhere by some pop ,be it as luxury ,to make sure that it is in some demand so that the price of the good doesn't collapse.
I think that's going way too far - you're applying the wrong philosophy here IMO. Needs aren't what people need to survive, but what they think they need to survive. Using your logic everyone would be just fine in today's world provided they got to scavenge in a restaurant rubbish bin now and then. No, they wouldn't exactly die of hunger, but life would lose most of its charm I should imagine.
Anyway I'm not willing to make any big adjustments that will necessitate many hours spent testing etc. This mod become useless the moment the new patch comes out, and that's probably no more than a few weeks away.
Anyway I'm not willing to make any big adjustments that will necessitate many hours spent testing etc. This mod become useless the moment the new patch comes out, and that's probably no more than a few weeks away.
I'm afraid I haven't had much time to play Victoria; I'm busy making money. So I'm afraid I won't be able to release a final update for at least three weeks, by which time the need for any mod may be obviated.
I did put in some time before getting busy with work and here are the few resulting conclusions:
- implementing a price-based POP need system doesn't work in practice. Dividing all items into three categories based solely on price looks odd, and a single market anomaly destroys the setup anyway. I'm afraid that as long as the POPs use the price as the basis for their purchase decision, we won't have a system that guarantees 100% everyday need satisfaction before purchases of luxuries begin (life needs are easier to arrange, comprising all the ultra cheap items). So although I share all my fellow players feelings about the odd need satisfaction percentages that show up, they're here to stay at least until 1.03 and possibly forever.
- there is some need level and price tweaking to be done with modern-day needs such as automobiles, airplanes, fuel, etc.
- I need to look again at the steel situation, since the steel shortage that tends to begin around 1870 is far too acute.
- I'll be giving crime and education costs one final look
- I'll be considering tweaks to various economic events. Currently, a player who has been hit by several factory loss events and then by the monopoly event might as well reload a save or start a new game.
If you have any suggestions please post, but bear in mind I won't be able to touch Victoria for at least three weeks more.
I did put in some time before getting busy with work and here are the few resulting conclusions:
- implementing a price-based POP need system doesn't work in practice. Dividing all items into three categories based solely on price looks odd, and a single market anomaly destroys the setup anyway. I'm afraid that as long as the POPs use the price as the basis for their purchase decision, we won't have a system that guarantees 100% everyday need satisfaction before purchases of luxuries begin (life needs are easier to arrange, comprising all the ultra cheap items). So although I share all my fellow players feelings about the odd need satisfaction percentages that show up, they're here to stay at least until 1.03 and possibly forever.
- there is some need level and price tweaking to be done with modern-day needs such as automobiles, airplanes, fuel, etc.
- I need to look again at the steel situation, since the steel shortage that tends to begin around 1870 is far too acute.
- I'll be giving crime and education costs one final look
- I'll be considering tweaks to various economic events. Currently, a player who has been hit by several factory loss events and then by the monopoly event might as well reload a save or start a new game.
If you have any suggestions please post, but bear in mind I won't be able to touch Victoria for at least three weeks more.
Michaelis,
I'm enjoying the economy mod a bunch - thanks for putting this out! I've been playing the US GC, and I like the starting setup for factories much better than raw 1.02 (along with a number of other things).
Just my 2 cents, but I've removed the machine parts required for small arms manufacture. Once i ran out of machine parts, I was unable to produce any new units until after 1850, and that seemed a bit unbalanced to me.
Also, I'm not sure I'd bet on 1.03 coming out any moment (unless maybe you have some inside information? )
I'm enjoying the economy mod a bunch - thanks for putting this out! I've been playing the US GC, and I like the starting setup for factories much better than raw 1.02 (along with a number of other things).
Just my 2 cents, but I've removed the machine parts required for small arms manufacture. Once i ran out of machine parts, I was unable to produce any new units until after 1850, and that seemed a bit unbalanced to me.
Also, I'm not sure I'd bet on 1.03 coming out any moment (unless maybe you have some inside information? )
kirkpp said:
Glad you like it. Re small arms: have you tried buying them? Buying small arms has never been a problem in any of my games.
Yes, I did in fact buy a few, but they were ruinously expensive (at least from the poverty stricken US point of viewMichaelis said:
). In the game I am currently playing, the price is 249 L in 1841, so it costs 12,500 L for equipping 5 reserve divisions. I do like the fact that in your mod many of the items that were completely impossible to get are now possible, but difficult to get. Nice work!
The 1.02 economy mod has been removed from User Made Mods (don't ask me why - I don't know) so I'm reposting the link to the download here - it was a couple of pages back and hard to find:
http://upl.mine.nu/uplfolders/upload4/1.02_viceconmodRC.zip
I'm still hard at work but if 1.03 is delayed I might be able to release a final version.
http://upl.mine.nu/uplfolders/upload4/1.02_viceconmodRC.zip
I'm still hard at work but if 1.03 is delayed I might be able to release a final version.
Wilhelm II. said:No Michaelis it is still there!
In that case I must be going mad, or blind, or both in my old age.