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Dec 27, 2001
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Well, here it is, finally: the Victoria 1.02 economy mod release candidate. I'm happy to say works significantly better than the previous, beta3 update. Naturally it's not perfect, but overall you should find the game more playable. Note that this version includes changes to the tech folder.

This is the penultimate version of the mod. I'll be releasing version 1.0 in a week to two weeks depending on the amount of gameplay I get in as well as on the feedback.

Link: http://upl.mine.nu/uplfolders/upload4/1.02_viceconmodRC.zip


Changes in 1.02 economy mod release candidate

- factory crime fighting costs have been increased

- base (police) crime fighting costs have been slightly reduced

- selected Commerce, Culture, and Army Lights Arms techs (Machine Guns are the exception) cause a 5% to 10% increase/decrease in basic (police) crime fighting costs; researching all techs with a crime impact will yield a basic crime fighting cost that amounts to 150% of the vanilla 1.02

- selected factory inputs have been tweaked upwards slightly

- POP needs have been radically revised

- industrial product prices have been tweaked

- starting factory setup has been rebalanced to work with new POP needs (more fabric factories)

- Mexico POP file is now the same as vanilla 1.02; Mexico no longer has a problem converting POPs to needed craftsmen.

NOTE: Input for steel mills is the same as in beta3. When I increased it, the AI became somewhat reluctant to build new steel mills. Extra notes:

- cement may be hard to get in the first year of the game. However, it will become freely available soon afterwards.

- lumber may be very hard to get a couple of years into the game. This may persist for around a dozen years.

- steel becomes expensive and hard to get 20-30 years into the game.

- clipper convoys are hard to get/expensive at start of the game. However, the price drops and availability increases a few years into the game.

If you want to industrialize on a large scale, you must build your own lumber mill and steel mill. Note also that WM prices for selected items may fluctuate greatly; for example, steamers may be anything between 230 and 550. You have to keep your eye on the world economy if you want to make money consistently!
 
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Well last night I finally got to play the game instead of testing and though it's in really poor taste I must say I like my work :). Maybe because it turned out to be a very interesting game: for starters, Austria pretty nearly broke up in the 1850s (independent Hungary, Croatia, Ukraine). I'm playing as Colombia (love those South American countries, they're ideal for skulduggery on a global scale); managed to get into #7 by 1860, and totally annex Ecuador without having Brazil jump on me (not yet, anyway). I've also got a couple of colonies (Bonin and Okinawa/Awami) which should be very useful in the upcoming colonial wars, heh heh.

My only concern is that POPs might make money too easily: playing with zero tariff and 30-40-50 taxes, I'm seeing poor POPs beginning to accumulate cash in early 1860s (100% life and everyday needs satisfied). It's always easier to make POPs wealthy when playing a small to mid-sized SA country, so if any of you have observations regarding POP cash, please post.

Please note that the mod leaves the basic POP income unchanged from vanilla 1.02.
 
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Walter Hawkwood

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Maybe cash is truly a little too abundant - no commies, even almost no socialists! And there's one thing that alerts me as far as you've mentioned it - Austria fell apart in my new game too! They seem to hate your mod :D
On the airplanes - I'm really confused, as from that on my planes also costed normally...
 
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It's really funny about Austria, I didn't see it fall apart once in the 20 or so high speed game tests with the RC mod. But my first 'normal' game - bang! Austria breaks up.

Thank you for the observations, please keep watching POP cash in relation to exports value/tax and tariff/approximate number of POPs in each income group (the more there are, the less cash they have). I have just one more chance to get this approximately right. My Colombia game isn't that great a test because Colombian POPs get some lucky breaks income-wise (and the fact that I have a very healthy economy obviously doesn't hurt either).

Walter: I just fired up last night's game and in spite of having such well-off citizens I do have a bunch of Socialists (about 35 percent of the electorate). There is even a handful of Communists (former Ecuador provinces). They're all slowly turning Liberal though.

EDIT: The poor are poor again ;). their temporary wealth was caused by a lucky, coincidental drop in WM prices. They're still a little better off than in the beginning, getting more of everyday needs, but are no longer accumulating cash.
 
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unmerged(18816)

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Hi,

seems to be a great work and thanks to you ...

Maybe you could work together with that one, who is doing that POP MOD to see if it works with that real historic Population ...

I will start now a game, first installed your ECON MOD, than that NAME MOD and than that POP MOD , even than there could be problems ... but I would like to start with historical population ...

Already played 1.02 GC with AUSTRIA, (finished 7th) and Russia (finished 1st, because that stupid China built 18000 Industry points and I destroyed it with russia and annexed, apart from the capital, what wasn't possible)

So will see how it will be done with your MOD ...

maybe with Austria again, because that has been reduced a lot with that POP MOD ...
Anyway thanks for your effort
 

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Michaelis,

I am currently testing my events with your MOD, and testing the AI, I decided to play a nation away from S.A., so I chose Japan.

After I made the first outpost in the pacific. I ran out of Lumber for 40 years, when the Meiji restoration triggered and I could build my own Steel, Lumber, Cement (holy trindade of industrialization). And even with my factory, lumber was still a luxury in WM.

Saved around in 1870. Machine parts, never saw. Paper, Clothes and Furniture, I never had to pass an order to buy, cause Japan has a lot of industrial workers. I must say that before Meiji restoration my, prestige was around 100 (9th rank), and after it jumped to 200 (7th rank), so wasnt the problem of prestige access to WM.

And some techs, that you increased crime fighting doesnt make sense. Other than that, you made 1.02 playable. Congrats.
 

O CoRVo

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This pop economy thing is something really frustating to me, as germany my pop was able to buy 100% life and 60% everyday, now as russia they started buying 90% life and 0% everyday, in 1890 i am so rich that i decide to reduce tax to the maximum allowed (i am capitalist) and tarrifs too

so i lose 200 or 400 bucks a day to tarrifs and with almost no taxes (and a acceptable minimun wage and pension) my population now only buy 100% life and 50-60% everyday... what the hell? Without wars i managed to make russia the most industrious nation EVER, with 1800 industrial power (and i could not buy machine parts, it was because of technology)

One thing that i realised was that even in high demand dye was unprofitable because of the costs of sulphur (with i was producing 10 more units a day than the needed) and airplanes had no demand at all, something like 0.50 so i had to close the factory

Will test the new version soon, but right now its dominions 2 for me...
 
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Let me make one thing clear: you will not be able to make poor POPs rich enough to buy luxury items unless you manage to create a truly exceptional economy/a very good economy in a relatively small country (POP-wise; export value is divided by number of POPs when calculating POP export income). The poor are called the poor for a reason. My aim, as stated earlier in this thread, was to make it possible for the poor POPs to satisfy life needs 100% and everyday needs 50-70% given a good economy, no tariffs, and low taxes.

I like it very much that German poor are less poor than the Russian poor; this is exactly as it should be. Please also note that due to the POP income discrepancies between various countries, making POPs richer would have resulted in ridiculous results for some countries: a setup that would have allowed poor Russian POPs 100% life need satisfaction would have automatically given poor Colombian POPs 100% life AND everyday need satisfaction. A little out of whack, I think. Conclusion: if you really must have rich poor POPs in your game, go to the misc file in the economy folder and double or triple the basic POP income.

Lumber: as stated earlier, lumber becomes very hard to get a couple of years into the game, and this shortage lasts around a dozen years. I have never seen a lumber shortage last more than around 15 years in any tests, and it lasted just 4-5 years in the full game I'm playing now. I'll look at the starting factory setup again (as I said earlier I definitely do not want to add new factories at startup), but I must say I rather like the fact that the shortage means Japan is not able to build colonies left, right and centre right off the bat. I cannot imagine a 19th century country embarking on an ambitious economic programme without such basic industrial objects as a lumber mill.

Assignment of crime cost penalties to techs: commerce techs such as stock exchange and ad-hoc money bill printing open up new criminal activity areas. Some culture techs, especially art techs, also carry increased crime costs. This is because these 'techs', as the game has it, were a reflection of the societal changes that took place (art is a mirror of the collective subconscious), and further reinforced those changes. Example: the rise of the nationalist movements was largely attributable to the romantic movement and the romantic ethos. The romantic movement also spawned the popular mythical stereotype of the 'noble bandit', which to this day makes certain types of crime more 'acceptable' (for instance, a poor/working class bank robber). I don't want to write a whole treatise here; you get the drift.

Please note that I haven't attempted to balance the mod with other mods, such as the POP mod, in place. If you use other mods too, you might get funny results.
 

O CoRVo

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Michaelis i know about poor not buying luxury needs, if you read some of the posts in the first page you will see that i understand perfectly, but since you said a couple threads ago that you managed to make your pop buy more goods i am curious about how, since even with low taxes and tariff they still cant buy 100% life and everyday

and what about the dye and airplane thing i said? it is fixed in the new version?

And unknow x: since russia literacy is horrible at the beggining i did not had the tech "early"

I dont know the year exactly but about it was aproximatly at 1900 or later
 
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Frankly, O Corvo, I think POP fortunes are greatly affected by the country you play. Try choosing a smaller country and let the POPs merge when industrializing - you'll see an improvement in their fortunes. I first became aware of the fact that the number of POPs affects their income when I noticed that every time I industralize, promoting numerous clerks, the middle class actually becomes a little poorer instead of richer. Then a couple of days ago a Russian player posted a brilliant analysis of POP income in the main forum (can't beat the Russians when it comes to cracking math problems) which confirmed my somewhat vague observations.

Also, I've found it helps greatly if your country makes some of the expensive goods desired by the POPs. You've noticed no doubt that the moment you begin making something, its price drops. Plus I've read elsewhere on the forum that POPs will buy stuff from your stockpile first if you're selling it, and that when that happens, they don't pay the tariff.

If you want to make the poor relatively rich, you could also try turning all small poor POPs into soldiers.

Dye: I haven't built a single dye factory since I started playing the game - it was never worth it, I've always been able to buy dye on the market when I needed it. Thanks for the alert, I'll keep an eye on dye availability and prices. Mind you, the dye factory input is reduced in the mod in comparison with vanilla 1.02 anyway. If you find sulphur too expensive, maybe you should do what the original colonisers did and secure a source by force? Borneo for example has a sulphur province IIRC.

Airplanes: something funny seems to be happening there, Walter reported a problem, then said it went away. I looked into that business and didn't find anything unusual, will keep an eye out for odd stuff happening though.

BTW if you like I'll send you a save with rich POPs - not from my present game though, things became very sticky after I declared colonial war on Oman without noticing UK had guaranteed its independence since my last check. I'm now sinking hordes of Brit sailing ships with my two ironclads and two monitors, and have taken almost all of Australia among others, but they still won't sign a white peace, even though Oman was annexed a couple of years back. This AI peacemaking business is really tiresome the way it is now.

Thank you for the comments, they help keep me on my toes.

PS for O Corvo: Just had a look at my game and I do have a save from 1863 with the poor beginning to accumulate cash. If you like I can send it to you; just pm me with your address.
 
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Started a new game as Argentina and made two saves. The 1843 save shows poor POPs beginning to accumulate cash; in the 1853 save, they have meaningful savings. The industry was far from great too. I'll be happy to send the saves to whoever requests them via pm.
 

cmstea0

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well, i've been playing with the 1.02 economy mod (it's great by the way) and i've got a problem. i've had some games without any problem but today i was playing a game and all of my factories suddenly stopped producing anything. they were receiving inputs, but no outputs. it was really wierd. naturally i had to quit since i ran out of money. i don't know if it's something i did, a game bug, or a mod problem. i thought i would post it here to see if anyone else has this problem. i can send you the save file if needed.
-chris
 

Gezeder

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Heya,

Just a quick suggestion, you might want to edit your first post with the link to your latest version of the mod. It will make it much easier for people to find your mod.

Anyway, I'm off to try it :)

Gezeder
 

O CoRVo

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Cmstea0, are you playing as prussia by any chance?

If you declare a war all the provincies in the other side are blocked, and you will need a ship to transport resources...

And michaelis right now i cant use email (dont ask) but even so i was only looking for advice, dont need to send it to me

And i built a dye factory just because.. there was some unemployement, and i wanted to have one more source of dye to cheap it a little (although that was not what happened, even with sulphur at low demand and dye at high like i said)
 
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Thank you very much - feel free to go ahead. However, I don't want to put you to extra trouble, so please be advised I'll release the final version in a week or two.

In connection with which, I have a question for everyone, a question which comes with two answers (as you can see I've been thinking about it). Here it is:

How do you like the way POP needs are split into life, everyday, and luxury?


A) I don't like it - all the food and/or cheapest items should be grouped together, then the middle expensive items, then the most expensive. This would let POPs satisfy 100% life needs before buying everyday items, and 100% life and everyday before buying luxury items. It would also close a loophole where the player gets the negative consciousness modifier for everyday/luxury goods even though POPs cannot afford all the life goods they need.


B) I like it fine, it doesn't bother me that a POP gets 60% life, 50% everyday and 50% luxury. To set up the needs by price would be unrealistic.

Please vote by posting below!
 

cmstea0

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(A) definitely. if i can't afford to feed little johnny but i can pay for that brand new airplane then obviously my priorities are wrong.

something needs to be altered.
-chris