@Bezborg Yes and it is a soft cap' (without conquering more Command center). I think it is raiser easy to achieve 115~125 with a bit of warfare.
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0 Economy exploits are getting more and more out of hand. LEM 3.1 made it WORSE
- Thread starter doomwarrior
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I would simply make it so when you have zero of a resource, you get penalties to all jobs which use that resource as upkeep.
An easy way to fix this -
1. The civic doesn't change jobs, it allows you to build a 'bio-catalyzer' building that takes x quantity of food and turns it into x/3 quantity of alloys (actually, minerals might be more justifiable, but I digress).
2. Re-use the code from the bio-reactor building that stops the building from generating it's output resource if the input resource is at 0.
Maybe I'm missing something; and I'm100% in agreement with the idea that a 0 resource condition should be something that cripples an empire if it's not quickly rectified.
1. The civic doesn't change jobs, it allows you to build a 'bio-catalyzer' building that takes x quantity of food and turns it into x/3 quantity of alloys (actually, minerals might be more justifiable, but I digress).
2. Re-use the code from the bio-reactor building that stops the building from generating it's output resource if the input resource is at 0.
Maybe I'm missing something; and I'm100% in agreement with the idea that a 0 resource condition should be something that cripples an empire if it's not quickly rectified.
Or disable a percentage of the jobs entirely? These 0 resource conditions should HURT...
That would be preferable, but it might be computationally expensive, idk.
Exploits are worse than bugs because they engender this toxic attitude.
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Exploits that you have to go out of your way to use and aren't likely to find on your own need not be a priority (like the one where you disable your bureaucrat jobs then turn them on for the month tick then turn the back off again: absolute micro pain in the ass for any kind of real game), ones you come across just by playing the game as intended should be fixed ASAP. This tends more towards the latter imo.
People who don't interact with the online Stellaris community at all are going to find this one their own.
People who don't interact with the online Stellaris community at all are going to find this one their own.
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Thanks for the mod, I'll give it a spin...I love that this is going on a "the patchlist"
Thanks for clarifying your process though. I did not mean this as a singular patch i meant it as part of your next beta/hotfix and then take your time to think about a proper solution that solves the entire issue once and for all. I would guess its likely one might come? Considering several issues that come to mind, that would be nice to adress in a beta patch...
This time it was a simple oversight. But yeah a food shortage sgould cause -90% catalitic pp output and +5 monthly bio pop decline in addition to -100% pop growth speed(Flat modifier that cancles everything else out)
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I think that's a good call: static defences were underwhelming since... forever. Would be interesting to see AI pull it off (not that I expect it any time soon).
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on the deficit problem, I think it's helpful to look at it in this way.
For clarification "this" means "using deficits in a manner that many would consider abusive, minmaxing, unrealistic, exploitative, or unfair"
A - Does the AI ever do this? If so, is the AI ever supposed to do this?
As far as I know the answer to both of these is "no"
B - Should the AI do this?
I'd say the vast majority of us agree the answer is "no"
C - Do you do this?
I think if you are agreeing with the premise that there's a problem, the answer to this is "no"
D - Do other players do this?
The answer clearly is yes. People have admitted to doing it, and have said they'll continue to do it.
E - How does other players doing this impact you?
Twofold.
i - Directly, in MP games.
The answer here is simple, ban it in the MP rules.
ii - Indirectly, by encouraging deficit gameplay through their discussions and actions in public locations like the forum
Now THIS is something that I'm not going to touch because this is where arguments begin.
Beyond that, all I can say is that I feel the current deficit mechanic is "terribly silly" as it enables empires to make things out of thin air. HoI4, for however much I slag it on the regular, has an excellent deficit mechanic, and something that mirrors that could be useful.
For clarification "this" means "using deficits in a manner that many would consider abusive, minmaxing, unrealistic, exploitative, or unfair"
A - Does the AI ever do this? If so, is the AI ever supposed to do this?
As far as I know the answer to both of these is "no"
B - Should the AI do this?
I'd say the vast majority of us agree the answer is "no"
C - Do you do this?
I think if you are agreeing with the premise that there's a problem, the answer to this is "no"
D - Do other players do this?
The answer clearly is yes. People have admitted to doing it, and have said they'll continue to do it.
E - How does other players doing this impact you?
Twofold.
i - Directly, in MP games.
The answer here is simple, ban it in the MP rules.
ii - Indirectly, by encouraging deficit gameplay through their discussions and actions in public locations like the forum
Now THIS is something that I'm not going to touch because this is where arguments begin.
Beyond that, all I can say is that I feel the current deficit mechanic is "terribly silly" as it enables empires to make things out of thin air. HoI4, for however much I slag it on the regular, has an excellent deficit mechanic, and something that mirrors that could be useful.
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You are blaming the player for playing the game in an optimal way. If the system is broken, that's on the system whether its an exploit or a bug. Blaming players for playing the game is the definition of toxicity.
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This fixes nothing for Machine Intelligence or Lithoids as they don't run bio pops. Something like this is hillariously broken:
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I would like to point out a distinction here.
I'm guessing that your objective of optimal play is: to win the game.
My objective of optimal play is: to have fun.
There is definitely overlap between these, but there is an important distinction. I would not care to play a multiplayer game where winning trumps everything including the experience of the other players. Sportsmanship is I think the term here.
I can also quote famous boardgame designer Reiner Knizia: "When playing a game, the goal is to win, but it is the goal that is important, not the winning."
In short, I suggest that if you are playing with a player that is abusing exploits in order to win, and the exploits are not in the spirit of the game, then don't play with them. Of course some groups like the 'win at any cost' style of play, but then you must be sure of what you are signing up for.
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First thing is that all production that is dependant on a resource should stop with the lack of said resource.
Second - game should count how many in fact, you have given resource, so that buying 5 food each month does not allow you to produce 100000 alloys.
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There's a precedent for this. The Bio-Reactor converts food to energy but ceases to do so when there is no food.
The challenging part lies in how this would interact with the industrial district. Those can have different upkeep costs for different goods production. How would you half deactivate a district?
If you have deficit, then no job should produce anything, because from what? unless my second point:
Game should actualy count how many deficit you have, so if 3 food is req for 1 alloy, then deficit 9 food should decrease total alloy production by 3, yert it should not provide negative production.
Enjoy
if you have some feedback i am happy to see what i can change. For the rest who might be interessted in the mod:
What i did as a "quick fix" for the problem is basically make people, machines, drones require more amenities to keep the nation running.
Decrease in global production of about -50% (since a shortage never just hits one sector, it has to be that high or the exploiters dont feel it, i tried)
Decrease in (general not just bio) population growth and production of about -75% in case of mineral and food shortage.
And decrease of ship speed in case of alloy or energy shortage.