'AARchtung panzer!' II (WiF2)

I think I know why you ignored diplo in the game mostly... It´s somewhat lame (not to say BS) that diplo doesn´t work very well.

Example. I put but the intel guy who increases Influence Nation chance and Neurath (who also increases influence chance) and eventually, even with Influenced and above resultas, I couldn´t make Turkey or Sweden change sliders. The obvious result, impossible to call to alliance. Same with Áustria - tried to use the Alliance option, was impossible as eventually Influence wouldn´t make them lose isolationism.

So I guess the only real chance to get ahistorical nations in the Axis is by coup. Considering how strong Steal Tech can be, I think investing on intel is more worthwhile than Diplo - or at the very least, use cash for those Invest in Research options.

On the other hand, I must say trading blueprints for cash aided me greatly Do you think it´s cheesy to give blueprints to Italy and Japan right from the beggining of the game?

Do you think it´s cheesy to give blueprints to Italy and Japan right from the beggining of the game?

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For free - yeah. They are not allies yet, you are just using hindsight. However, I see nothing wrong with selling stuff to friendly or neutral countries.

Hey Lucifer when you come back, could you post your current forces in september 1939?

What I´m doing in my game is

1- Air force: focus on interceptors, CAS and... Strategic Bombers (yes I love bombing Britain to bits, and then later soviets). Through I´m considering getting either Tacticals or Navals (problem is, I´m also researching CAGs for... see below)
2- Naval: Heavy and Light cruisers, then carriers (through your tip on super heavy BB was used ) The goal naturally is to make use of superior german rocket tech for uber CAGs. Not a single submarine.
3- Land: More heavy focus on mobile forces.

Goal is Barbarossa and then Seelowe. For lulz, I tried to get limited M-R pact (soviets refused) but I got my back somewhat guarded as I put Romania, Bulgaria and Yugoslavia in the Axis already (as long as the yugos don´t betray me before I beat France, it´s good enough)

Well, remember that I removed all the buffs to the AI So no 30% IC bonuses etc etc. Put everything to 0. Else I wouldn´t do crazy stuff.

Also, Germany has such good air teams it´s not hard to keep up in techs and doctrines - as long as you focus on few units (impossible to have all kinds of bombers up to date, indeed). I will update what happens on my game later (I´m more worried with the fact that I still used too much IC on consumer goods for cash and have few interceptors...)

Two other questions:

1- Will you assume military control of allies? Because playing as UK I´ve noticed the AI as usual does... baffling stuff with its air wings. Like sending a lone TAC in the middle of Germany to be obliterated.

2- How you organize air wings? One lt general and 3 major generals in your interceptors (to farm experience), or one Lt general commanding a single 4 interceptor wing?

EDIT Updating my own game, not signing M-R pact meant that I had to manually DOW Poland... and some time after the soviets DOWed them! What an annoying AI lol. I had to race to get good spots before the ruskies spanked Poland hard and could turtle behind rivers. Now, I wonder when they will attack me and how many forces I must leave at the border... And bloody Yugoslavia already left the Axis. I guess the lack of baltic states might be nasty for the soviets, but on the other hand it does mean the front will be more crowded.

Nice to see you back online.

Man, I guess I´ll quit the mod... Honestly, there is too much BS-ing the player. Playing as Uk, noticed that Germany, while doing the crazy invasions Fernando Torres programmed, get a mighty... -3 amphibious attack malus Also, enveloped units receive a +20% bônus... Also, the problem with getting military control as some countries is how much extra micro you need. If I control Austrália and India, when Japan DOWs things will get messy lol.

As much as I like the decisions and how realistic casualties are in the mod, I hate those BS approaches to difficulty. If the player is better than the AI, then tell him he should play on Hard, FFS... Instead of swamping him with numbers and silly modifiers. Is there any mod that has good decisions and balance without giving fantastic bonuses to the AI? Also, has anyone ever "won' the mod as Axis without cheating or save scumming?

Best of luck to you, if you do accomplish a Barbarossa you are uberpro

No air superiority over Germany? build more fighters Need the IC for fleet or army? Dilemma?

Well not really, without air superiority there is only trouble in the air, at land and at sea.

Lucifer said:

I still have to find a mod with good decisions and balanced... because it is impossible to achieve. The supply system is clearly deficient for example. Therefore, the only way to achieve a remotely accurate result is by giving the AI unfair advantages.

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This. Unless somebody programs an AI that actually *thinks*, the only way to make it a challenge for the player is to overcharge the AI (which in this respect stands for artificial idiocy).

That is not the issue. When I align more fighters, the stacking penalty eats my superiority. When I fight with a ratio of 2 vs 1 over Germany, the Allies lose 50% more fighters only. One could expect the losses to be at least twice higher. Clearly, aligning more planes is not the issue.
But...
...I am playing with you. Remember that this AAR is intended as a tutorial. I know the solution, and will apply it in few updates, probably in November or December

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Ah, a teaser, how very evil of you

Beagá said:

Also, has anyone ever "won' the mod as Axis without cheating or save scumming?

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I did "won" the mod without cheat nor "save scumming" last week.
The present AAR/tutorial helped me a lot. Thank you Lucifer!

Just optimisation of production, improved strategy in barbarossa, and planification for Seelöwe/invasion of the USA.
And I followed historical events until Barbarossa (September 1. 39 for Fall Weiss, April 1. 40 for Operation Wesserung, Mai 10. 40 for Fall Gelb, late 40 for Yougoslavia and greece (0 manual DOW, just events following) and June 22. 41 for Barbarossa.

Results : My Blitzkrieg in russia made Stalin surrender in the beginning of august 41 (I didn't need any winter equipement with this blitzkrieg strategy). Sinked all british convoy in the following winter, Seelöwe in may 42, invasion of US by sommer 43, they surrendered by November 43. The rest of the game is just strategic point hunting without real purpuse since when both US, UK and USSR are beaten, you're already master of the world.

I'm considering myself as an average player since I have a lot more to learn, and I learn in every game I play and in every AAR I read.

Oh sure, beating them in 2 months then invading the US in 2 years. LEt me guess, with only the ships from plan Z.

Yeah, sure, I believe in you. Maybe I´m spoiled with UK which can do nothing for a loooong while, while Germany indeed has a crapton of IC. When I resume my german game I´ll see how it goes.

It's a learning curve. In the old WIF, I lost my first two games as Germany. First one because I didn't know how to properly use fast units and I failed already in France, the second because I focused too much on building armoured and motorized divisions and didn't have enough plain old-fashioned infantry to maintain the front in Russia. I narrowly won the third game by encircling most of the Red Army in Belarus (but that gave the Soviets time to re-establish the front and it took another year or two to finish them off). The rest was rather easy (except when the Americans attempted to recapture Britain, that caught me totally by surprise and I almost lost the island).

Beagá said:

Oh sure, beating them in 2 months then invading the US in 2 years. LEt me guess, with only the ships from plan Z.

Yeah, sure, I believe in you. Maybe I´m spoiled with UK which can do nothing for a loooong while, while Germany indeed has a crapton of IC. When I resume my german game I´ll see how it goes.

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You seems to be a little sarcastic or spectical (no offense).

But I can assure you it's true (if you want screens or saves...). I build a lot of subs since 1938, and clear the seas with them. With the Plan Z, the gearing bonus and the 1940 Tech, they come very rapidly and are cheap. Ive also a "crapton" of IC (550 + before Fall Weiss), that allow me to make a huge army (approx 400 div before Barbarossa), a decent Luftwaffe (Int in defense, CAS for Blitzkrieg) and lots of subs.
Some of people I know in the french forum can do that too with a decent surface fleat (Carriers, destroyers...).
We had indeed a challenge in the french forum to beat Poland, then France, Then USSR (launching offensive at historical dates), then UK then USA before Mai 8. 1945. In my first attempt, I failed by 3 month late, and last week I succeeded 1,5 years ahead.

Fair enough, but read the posts on the previous pages to understand my POV. The appeal of the mod is exactly to give lots of choices, but if there are only one or two ways of winning then it´s not really a strategy game, but a WW 2 puzzle. I´m not saying that you should be able to coup nations AND invest AND spam all kinds of units, but I don´t want to have one or 2 paths to victory only. Specially as the appeal of a 1933 start is exactly to choose other paths. If every time you reach 1936 you did the same stuff then there is no reason for the mod to start in 1933, is there? At least I want a 1933 start so I can do diferent stuff every game (like building a carrier force as Germany, instead of all the bloody surfasse ships that were useless in real life, and not doing Molotov Ribbentrop, or occupying Norway as UK, etc etc).

And it´s a pity as there as there are few options. I checked TRP mod and it´s too bland compared to WiF (no investment in research, war games etc etc).

I understand your point of View. You mean that you want a mod wich let you a ton of choice in 1933. Indeed, it existed as the "Mod 33" in HOI2 with a lot of ahistorical path (even the refoundation of the Austro-Hungarian Empire!).
I think it exist some mod in DH you can enjoy, each one specific in there domain. For exemple one of them allows you to play Democratic Germany or Communist Germany (mixed mod?). Or totaly different reality (and lots of path) with Kaizerreich.

Unfortunaly, WIF2 was not created to be ahistoric. Fernando Torres made it for 2 clear goals :

- To have a maximum of historical immersion (a lot a flavour historical events).
- To give a big challenge for experienced players with its insane difficulty compared to Vanilla. FT even added some "war challenge" to the player in the 3 Blitzkrieg Campaigns (Fall Weiss, Fall Gelb, Barbarossa).

To this, I can assume that FT also test some features witch will be applied in the next patch (the economic slider for exemple).

The reason to the 1933 start? I see some (in my point of view) :

- Better historical immersion with a lot of flavor events for major countries. With Germany you follow the rise of Nazi dictatorship, the new deal with US...
- A way to improve your economy compared to the 36' scenario
- Gives you more time for your military choices (For exemple you can realy make a great Carrier taskforce with germany cause you have both time and IC).

I know, reading your other posts, you don't support the fact that the AI have to cheat to give challenge to the player.
When I started WIF2, I was in your case and played a first game without the AI cheats. But finaly it was not so exciting... Knowing that some other people succeeded in a modthat seems impossible to "win" gives me the will to progress, and I think it worked! The excitement before Barbarossa (knowing the AI cheat) is something worth it in my humble opinion.

Once again, this mod is meant to be played historicaly, so ahistorics events are very few (Vanilla ones + some minor ones). So the "WW2 Puzzle" is not far from the reality. Onlythe player skills (production and planification then tactics) decides if you "win" or not.
Some german players even chose to fail in Barbarossa (refuse to advance further than in reality) to taste the difficulty and follow all historics events.

Any nightfigthers in wif2?

Lucifer said:

@Vorondil: Thank you for your kind words. Are you not using the same pseudo on the AF forum by chance? I have to say that I am on line with everything you wrote above.

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Yeah, it's me on Strategium.
I participate to the multiplayer game with Alan (who taught me a lot!).
The beginning of your ARR helped me greatly to achieve the challenge, enven if I chose different path (Sub Fleat, INT/CAS for Luftwaffe, Heavy-IC approach etc). I'm thinking of making an ARR/tuto like you're doing, but in french in the AF website. If you have some tips for the form (software, font...) I'll be heavily thanksfull ^^

Great AAR, rarely comment on anything but just wanted you to let know that your doing amazing job lucifer, thank you. following, obviously..