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21oliver

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Jun 8, 2010
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Back playing France after ages (norm mode) just wanted to hear your thoughts, advice, experiences etc... ;)

Edit. Hooray for small victories! I unleashed my subs and along with the UK as of Nov 1, 1939 Germany has no Convoys and 1 Escort. Viva la Oliver! :D
 
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France can be a lot of fun - they were especially one of my favorite nations in hoi2.

In hoi3 you've still got lots of options, they're just a bit harder to get to work depending on how far outside of the bounds of history/how you were likely intended to play them, you're willing to go lol.

So first, with full credit to Marco for his really interesting VH let's play of France, you can completely break the system (especially on normal) and use France's advanced tank technology to create invincible heavy tank units that you can just throw Germany (and any other nation) into the dumpster with lol. It's fun to try at least once, and to see how the game world devolves when France instantly steam rolls Germany in 1939 (or to have a chance in VH mode) lol.

So it all boils down to that. You can go with other army formations, but it makes the game a bit harder, and *probably* rules out saving Poland.

In hoi2 tanks didn't make much sense for France because of the IC limitations, and I think that attitude really carried over for hoi3, but for hoi3, you can't afford *not* to build tanks - because of your extreme MP limitations you need that metal lol.

If you go straight standard infantry, and have enough to defend yourself without expanding the maginot line over the Belgian border, you *will* be extremely low on MP, and any sustained fighting will result in being completely out of MP. Even with the invincible tanks strat, you will likely hit 0 on the MP scale most likely before Germany surrenders. But it should be so late that Germany cannot recover - with INF based formations it's a lot harder to guarantee that.

The French navy is certainly an overlooked asset - they're pretty much the lynch pin of France's success, because their navy is *extremely* powerful. You can stand toe to toe with Italy or Germany, so that gives you a *tremendous* amount of freedom.


The only real tip I'll give is that you *don't* want to try to defend Belgium... in Belgium. It'll be bad and sad. The French economy can actually sustain that for 2 years - but eventually you'll be completely out of fuel and 100% of your IC will be needed for supplies lol.
 
France is my favourite nation to play. The sense of urgency in preparations and importance of making the right decisions about what to focus on. You can't have everything, the germans are going to be superior in either air or armour and you cannot give up infantry techs and doctrines. You will fight in several theatres, but not that many that you have to constantly pause and go back and forth across the world. You need to manage your manpower, resources and leadership to get the best possible effect out of what you have, and done correctly you can still come out winning without letting a single enemy step onto french soil.

I find that the french situation gives me a good balance of having things that I simply must have and a few options of things that I can have, as well as battles that I must win and battles that I can give up and still survive. It allows for a few minor mistakes, but each one of them will have consequences. Every decision is important, I don't find that the other majors provide me with that sort of challenge.

My standard approach is to rebuild the army with focus on inf/art and inf/at divisions. Once I have my base infantry force built, I don't build many new infantry divisions and focus my manpower on tougher units and air wings. Later I will upgrade some of them to improve hardness and speed. Ignoring speed for my armour, I don't expect any quick breakthroughs and I want to primarily defend and possibly threaten some flanks occasionally. Heavy armour are as mentioned above really awesome, I tend to use them as moving fortresses that can plug weak spots as they occur. My main defensive tactic is to have five or six divisions on the line that can hold and fight the enemy long enough for reinforcements to arrive, and then reinforcements forces that are focused for the job - heavy armour to stop german tanks on plains, engineer forces to stop them in rivers and fortresses and infantry for defending in urban, mountain or other difficult terrain. For aircrafts I focus on interceptors, but I accept that I won't gain superiority and primarily keep them stationed to be used in key battles to offload the ground forces from air attacks.

I find defending in Belgium quite doable, Brussels and Antwerpen are great key points and I can keep huge numbers of the german army tied up there indefinitely. The biggest issue is that the AI will send large amounts of exp. forces to the Belgians, which they won't be able to maintain and reinforce, so I end up with stacking penalties caused by Belgian forces with inferior numbers that don't contribute much to the battle. Asking the AI to defend in my lands will send some of those forces my way instead. The massive clogging of divisions in Belgium can also slow down org. regain rate, so I prefer to withdraw my worn down forces into my own territory to recover faster. Despite having to travel longer distances to and from the frontline, this tends to keep the frontline recycled with fresh forces more frequently.

Once the Soviets throw their chips in, I turn to offense in order to take as much german land as possible before the communists take it. Usually it is only a matter of months before the curtain goes down on the third reich by then. Depending on how the AI did elsewhere, half the world may be occupied by Japan by then and the second part of the game begins which is far less interesting, as it is mostly just a matter of painting the map of Asia.
 
It is pretty easy for a human France to take out Germany in vanilla. Quite swiftly and decisively.

So I think its fun to extend the maginot, and play a more colonial oriented France whose primary objective isn't to kill Germany. Build up your IC a bit, pick off resource targets like Italy, Portugal for the strategic effect, and go for things against Japan.
 
It is pretty easy for a human France to take out Germany in vanilla. Quite swiftly and decisively.

Without getting Gamey?

Pretty interesting note...Current game I started raising threat on Germany from Day 1, on Feb 28, 1937 I was already able to get War Economy...nice surprise! :)
 
I've played and won with France on "normal" a couple times, after trial and error. I'm not familiar with the quick victory strategies and prefer turtling in for a longer game. Last game I conquered Germany in late 1944,, with the USSR taking a portions of eastern Germany. Also conquered Italy in mid '44.

MP is at a premium for France, especially with a turtling in strategy. The problem is when you start fighting Germany a lot the reinforcements will consume your MP stockpile faster and you don't regain it quickly with France. Several things mitigate this problem.

1. Research Agriculture continuously, no matter how far ahead it is.
2. Start off by building support brigades to add to your existing divisions rather than building new divisions. Support brigades have lower MP requirements than do combat brigades.
3. Build lots of air wings. They take less MP than land divisions.
4. Build at least some armor. It uses less MP than infantry, especially relative to IC cost.
5. Try to only attack where you have a significant advantage and will not take very many casualties.
6. The option to upgrade to the "Specialist Training" law comes up early. Do make the upgrade. Better divisions v. more divisions is a good tradeoff when you're limited by MP.
7. Upgrade to "service by requirement" as soon as it becomes available.

Other strategies:

1. Extend the Maginot Line up to Dunkirk. I put 5-8 forts in each province, with the more commonly attacked provinces (i.e. Dunkirk and Cambrai) getting about 8. The provinces which border more than one enemy province should have more forts than the others.
2. Do not defend in Belgium, except do move one large stack into Phillipeville. It is protected from both directions by rivers, so you get about 10 forts of defense without having to build any of them. You can skip building forts in Hirson or just build a few.
3. Make sure to research and build CAS. It is critical to have tank busting aircraft against Germany.
4. Add 2-3 notches to the airbase in Lille early on.
5. Make sure to bring all colonial divisions home. All mountain divisions should be stationed on the Italian border.
6. Add forts to the Italian border provinces, at least 2 in each of Briancon and Barcelonette. This will allow you to defend the border the whole game with just your mountain units and maybe 1-2 other divisions.
7. You can land in Sicily/Itaty but wait until the UK does it first. You'll need too many divisions to make headway against Italy yourself.
8. Make sure to upgrade your laws, especially economic, ASAP before the war starts. Do not run out of money so you can't pay for the law upgrades. If you cede trade control to the AI it will often buy more oil than you need and cause you to go broke. If you're substantially delayed upgrading to war economy because of this you will lose.
9. Make sure to request lend-lease from UK and US at appropriate times.
10. Only naval techs I bother with are 1 level of battleship crew training, destroyer crew training and trade interdiction (doctrines). Don't bother with any other naval tech or building any naval units.
11. If you're getting really low on MP then build provincial structures and resistance cells which cost no MP.
12. Reseach the 4 core infantry techs and the 4 core medium tank techs. Also Art and AT brigade techs. Also keep up on CAS, Tac and Int techs, doctrines and core techs. Key land doctrines. Industrial and research techs. No secret weapons or theory, and not much naval.
13. Your inf divisions should have 50/50 art/at support. Against a less tank heavy enemy I would probably recommend a higher percentage of art, but this mix works well against Germany, and the AT brigades are much cheaper in IC.
14. Make sure to set your upgrades in the production tab to ZERO until the war is months off and you have researched a couple levels of tech. If you start upgrading early you waste IC on it in the longrun and it will kill your prewar production.
15. Make sure to set your spies to increase your national unity as top priority, right from the beginning. You need it to enact new laws.
 
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Thats pretty much what Im doing except so far I havent extended the Maginot line, was concerned I wouldnt get enough other stuff built in time, but its my plan for my next attempt.Thx for the input. Been playing for years and never seriously played much France, now im giving it a go.
 
*usually* what folks do during the "oh no" time of the actual war - is build IC. I mean... Air fields are nice too, but generally you've got *nothing else* to build - although one time I did go full lulz on Germany and just start straddling all of the "line" provinces I'd taken with static AA just to mess with them and keep my arty practical high since I'd nearly run out of MP lol.
 
Defending Belgium is actually pretty easy, even ideal compared to simply defending France. The number of provinces on your border that you'll need to defend is about the same either way, but if you do it in Belgium you'll be far better off in terms of terrain (being behind rivers or on hills). Plus Belgium itself helps a little.

From there my favorite strategy is to puppet Italy first, involving naval landings in Sicily first, Venice second. With Italy on your side you should have enough to turn the tide. I've tested this to work highly effectively in Very Hard difficulty.

Without getting Gamey?

Pretty interesting note...Current game I started raising threat on Germany from Day 1, on Feb 28, 1937 I was already able to get War Economy...nice surprise! :)

Depends very highly on what you call gamey, but on Normal it's not difficult at all to flat out dominate Germany if you know what you are doing. Germany is incredibly vulnerable while Poland is still occupying their forces and even afterwards they aren't too bad.
 
*usually* what folks do during the "oh no" time of the actual war - is build IC. I mean... Air fields are nice too, but generally you've got *nothing else* to build - although one time I did go full lulz on Germany and just start straddling all of the "line" provinces I'd taken with static AA just to mess with them and keep my arty practical high since I'd nearly run out of MP lol.

You actually find time as France where you feel there is nothing to build?

Depends very highly on what you call gamey, but on Normal it's not difficult at all to flat out dominate Germany if you know what you are doing. Germany is incredibly vulnerable while Poland is still occupying their forces and even afterwards they aren't too bad.

Yeah most would consider it gamey to hit Germany while they are in Poland... ;)
 
Yeah I'm usually super low on MP come 1939. Because I build a *lot* of crap prior to the war - because I want several corps for amphibious operations all over Europe and I don't build any land forts - and I tend to like to reenact the Narvik operation :)

As far as hitting Germany whilst they're in Poland - I've never actually been able to get it to work with any reliability (unless I'm using the HARM on every division strat lol) because it's *really* hard to cross the Siegfried line and penetrate deeply enough into Germany before you end up in a slug-fest with Germany (that you can't win because of MP considerations)- and your supply lines get all wonky because Belgium and the Netherlands are in the way (I tend to like to try to swing north to snatch up all that IC that lives there). That and Poland will still typically collapse *very* quickly. I've even tried sending fairly large forces into Poland to prop them up a bit - but so many of their units get encircled in the first week or so of the war, it's basically just me at that point lol. There *were* several French politicians and generals who advocated for striking at Germany at the very opening of the war. One of the main reasons that *didn't* happen is because France had done the *very* same thing in WW1 - everybody talks about the von Schlieffen plan - but the French had their own (known as plan XVII) - and it called for an all out assault into Germany (or Belgium) across the Rhine - and well it didn't go so well. So, they were quite leery of doing that a second time.