Why do random counties in my realm go semi-independent (and then fully independent)?

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Coga19000

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Sep 8, 2017
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I've been playing as the HRE in the Charlemagne start, and found a peculiar situation that I didn't see in my Byzantine playthrough: I will get independence revolts, and even if I win the revolt (100% war score enforce demands, not white peace), I will actually get some of my vassals with their own colors on the map - even though I am still technically their top liege. And after a while (I suppose after succession but I haven't checked) they DO go fully independent.
Is there a good reason for this happening, like some law or a mechanic I haven't seen? Because it's super frustrating (especially since I've been excommunicated and getting shittons of revolts) just getting chunks of my mainland leaving even when I win, and I'm fully prepared to just get them back by console if it's just a bug.
 
I have wondered that as well. Breaking the vassal limit is supposed to do that, but when I play without vassal limit, it still occurs.
 
I have wondered that as well. Breaking the vassal limit is supposed to do that, but when I play without vassal limit, it still occurs.
Hmmm. I do believe I might have broken the vassal limit at that point. But still, if it didn't work in your case either... (Besides, vassal limit is a badly designed mechanic. It's def a good thing to have, but it should be upped just a bit.)
 
This might sound stupid, but are they revolting themselves against the independence revolts from you?

So (for example), you have a king and a few dukes revolt against you, but at some stage during that war as you beat their armies they then have counts revolt against them.

It's possible that something isn't quite putting the vassal chains back correctly after the war if that's the case.
 
I'm not sure if this is the case but if the revolt leader tries to revoke a county the count will become independent and if the revolt ends before the other war they will become independent. I'm not 100% sure this is how it works but other than this I have no idea.
 
I'm not sure if this is the case but if the revolt leader tries to revoke a county the count will become independent and if the revolt ends before the other war they will become independent. I'm not 100% sure this is how it works but other than this I have no idea.
If this is the case the game should really have some system in place for revolters of revolters to be able to rejoin the original realm.
 
I've had some buggy issues with this myself. In a recent game, I was leading a claimant revolt against the Byzantine Emperor and I had some strategoi die and their themes reverted to me. When the revolt ended inconclusively (my claimant died), like 3-4 of my vassals (non-de jure to my primary title) went independent of both me and the emperor. But when i tried it again with a save-reload, my claimant still died (cancer), but no themes reverted to me and after the revolt I still had all my vassals. So there's definitely some weird bug with it, but it's hard to tell exactly what causes it sine presumable you weren't getting themes reverted to you.
 
This might sound stupid, but are they revolting themselves against the independence revolts from you?

So (for example), you have a king and a few dukes revolt against you, but at some stage during that war as you beat their armies they then have counts revolt against them.

It's possible that something isn't quite putting the vassal chains back correctly after the war if that's the case.

I'm not sure if this is the case but if the revolt leader tries to revoke a county the count will become independent and if the revolt ends before the other war they will become independent. I'm not 100% sure this is how it works but other than this I have no idea.
Hmmm. I am not 100% that this did NOT happen, but I would like to believe that I would have noticed this before the war is done. Besides, as I mentioned, they are not immediately independent; even though the map shows them as independent, the top liege icon still shows them as my vassals (which means I cannot even kill them early). It is only later that I realise that I'm no longer even their top liege.

I've had some buggy issues with this myself. In a recent game, I was leading a claimant revolt against the Byzantine Emperor and I had some strategoi die and their themes reverted to me. When the revolt ended inconclusively (my claimant died), like 3-4 of my vassals (non-de jure to my primary title) went independent of both me and the emperor. But when i tried it again with a save-reload, my claimant still died (cancer), but no themes reverted to me and after the revolt I still had all my vassals. So there's definitely some weird bug with it, but it's hard to tell exactly what causes it sine presumable you weren't getting themes reverted to you.
Mmm, it's interesting that you mention Byzantium, since in my previous games almost all of my titles were viceroyalties, and I never encountered this problem.
 
If this is the case the game should really have some system in place for revolters of revolters to be able to rejoin the original realm.

I love ck2 but it boggles my mind that in a game like this there's no option to change sides in a war. Or even to form new alliances and call fellow vassals to join you if you're fighting an independence war.

I'm constantly annoyed that the game won't let me do things at the time when they're most appropriate. See also not being able to duel whilst at war.

Although having said that, I like the random counties going independent. Makes me think of opportunistic Balon Greyjoy characters making the most of the chaos of a revolt. And then gives you a good excuse for a hostile takeover if you're a loyal Duke or count.
 
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I love ck2 but it boggles my mind that in a game like this there's no option to change sides in a war. Or even to form new alliances and call fellow vassals to join you if you're fighting an independence war.

I'm constantly annoyed that the game won't let me do things at the time when they're most appropriate. See also not being able to duel whilst at war.

Although having said that, I like the random counties going independent. Makes me think of opportunistic Balon Greyjoy characters making the most of the chaos of a revolt. And then gives you a good excuse for a hostile takeover if you're a loyal Duke or count.

Okay, you've given me an idea for a mod.

1) A new character decision that allows you to leave any war in which you are currently involved via a separate white peace. Maybe the current White Peace / Surrender conditions could be scaled to your current warscore contribution, so if you have hardly been involved then you won't be missed but if you were the biggest contributor then you will suffer the biggest penalty. You would also get massive opinion hits with all of your current allies and or loss of any current pacts with any close dynasty members of those allies.

This would be a great way to get out of one of those endless ping pong wars that never seem to end.

2) A new character decision to Duel any commander currently leading troops in the same area as you. This means that you could be at the head of your own body of troops or simply ruling from your capital while it is currently under siege. The Duel option would be similar to current Duel event chain but success would drastically improve your own army's morale and weaken the enemy's while the reverse would be true if you lost.

This would be a great way to try and recover a battle that was rapidly going south.
 
Another example for weird revolt shenangains is wars do not end if someone from outside the realm holds revolting land. As in Your revolt may not end even if you at 100 percent. Its even worse when you realize that war shifts happen already, thus your stuck with either trying to siege down the land in a loop(as beating the enemy may not always be possible) or let your lands go.
 
This might sound stupid, but are they revolting themselves against the independence revolts from you?

So (for example), you have a king and a few dukes revolt against you, but at some stage during that war as you beat their armies they then have counts revolt against them.

It's possible that something isn't quite putting the vassal chains back correctly after the war if that's the case.
I've suspected for a while that this may be happening: I've noticed random independent counts sprinkled around my realm on several occasions after a substantial civil war, and had to spend some time putting things back the way they should be.
 
Okay, you've given me an idea for a mod.

1) A new character decision that allows you to leave any war in which you are currently involved via a separate white peace. Maybe the current White Peace / Surrender conditions could be scaled to your current warscore contribution, so if you have hardly been involved then you won't be missed but if you were the biggest contributor then you will suffer the biggest penalty. You would also get massive opinion hits with all of your current allies and or loss of any current pacts with any close dynasty members of those allies.

This would be a great way to get out of one of those endless ping pong wars that never seem to end.

2) A new character decision to Duel any commander currently leading troops in the same area as you. This means that you could be at the head of your own body of troops or simply ruling from your capital while it is currently under siege. The Duel option would be similar to current Duel event chain but success would drastically improve your own army's morale and weaken the enemy's while the reverse would be true if you lost.

This would be a great way to try and recover a battle that was rapidly going south.

Great ideas! As is I've started challenging enemy commanders to duels before or after a war and then pretending it happened on the battlefield.

The not being able to leave a war one is most annoying when you're in an allies war and then they refuse to join one of yours. So the "alliance has broken down". Fine, but now I've won my war I can't do anything until my idiot ex-ally wins or loses their war that I'm stuck in. And I'm obviously not going to help them with it.
 
I've had these"semi-independant" vassals croping up in my current nomad game as well. Except in my case they never went fully independant for 150+years. It's super frustrating because you can't interact with them in any way. You can't declare war, can't revoke, can't offer vassalization, can't call them to war... You have these super ugly eye-bleeding borders and no way to fix them...
 
This is the hell that is temporary titles. I remember an independence revolt I was the leader of. It granted independence to all of me no de jure vassals too when I won. They should get rid of them.